Substitution Tactics

Neil Pickup · 02-07-2005, 06:08 AM

Okay, I know most of us don't like substitutions, but they're happening as of next week - so we might as well get used to it for the time being and have a think about how best they could be used.

Let's hear some ideas!

shaka · 02-07-2005, 06:15 AM

First 10 overs will stay the same, then rest used between 20 and 40 over period, might make scores lower as unprepared batsman would need time before freeing up their arms.

BoyBrumby · 02-07-2005, 06:21 AM

As I understand it the sub must be named before the toss (otherwise it's a real no-brainer), so I think generally subs will be bowlers who bat a bit & batters who bowl a bit so the captain (I'm assuming the captain has the say when to make the sub) has both suits covered.

The Aussies could have someone like Symonds or Harvey as their sub. If they bat first someone like Hayden could be subbed & if they bowl McGrath would get the ar$e. If they bowl first I could see McGrath (or whoever) bowling out at the outset & then the sub coming straight on.

I'm not in favour of subs, BTW.

superkingdave · 02-07-2005, 06:27 AM

The commentators seem confused about it they were talking about someone replacing someone who had bowled his ten, and then bowling himself. This can't happen and i assume that if someone were to replace a player who has batted and got out, he can't bat himself

GotSpin · 02-07-2005, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Pickup

Okay, I know most of us don't like substitutions, but they're happening as of next week - so we might as well get used to it for the time being and have a think about how best they could be used.

Let's hear some ideas!

Substitutions...huh...Yes im a little out of it...

Neil Pickup · 02-07-2005, 06:32 AM

That's correct. For that reason I can't see tactics being much different to starting with seamers and replacing one quick with a batsman when he's bowled out.

shaka · 02-07-2005, 06:43 AM

It would be most likely an allrounder who is quite good at both batting and bowling, e.g Cairns in his heyday would replace Chris Martin once he has bowled out, or a guy like Mark Richardson after he has batted

Neil Pickup · 02-07-2005, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaka

It would be most likely an allrounder who is quite good at both batting and bowling, e.g Cairns in his heyday would replace Chris Martin once he has bowled out, or a guy like Mark Richardson after he has batted

Then Cairns wouldn't get to bat or bowl, which is daft.

shaka · 02-07-2005, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Pickup

Then Cairns wouldn't get to bat or bowl, which is daft.

Yes he would because he would take over one position therefore would be eligible to bowl or bat depending on whether his replacee has batted / bowled or not. thats how I understand the rule

aussie · 02-07-2005, 06:53 AM

well form what i understand you name your subs at the toss, but just a questiom how many players can be subsituted for the 2nd part of the innings??

Neil Pickup · 02-07-2005, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaka

Yes he would because he would take over one position therefore would be eligible to bowl or bat depending on whether his replacee has batted / bowled or not. thats how I understand the rule

If you replace Martin with Cairns after Martin has bowled his 10, Cairns inherits Martin's 10 which have already been used.

If you replace an opening bat with Cairns after the opening bat is out, Cairns inherits that position and so by definition is 'out' too.

Otherwise you end up with 11 wickets, which really isn't cricket!

shaka · 02-07-2005, 07:01 AM

but then he could do the other, e.g. bat for Martin or field / bowl for Richardson, one really would not want Martin to bat or Richardson to field

superkingdave · 02-07-2005, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaka

but then he could do the other, e.g. bat for Martin or field / bowl for Richardson, one really would not want Martin to bat or Richardson to field

yeah but you'd want Cairns to be able to do both

shaka · 02-07-2005, 07:06 AM

its likely to be an allrounder who gets the position under the new rules, ie someone who can do both, the choice afaik is done before the toss is made, ie when the team for the game is given to officials before walking to the pitch to conduct the toss.

The substitute thing makes it more unlikely for a 12th man to go and play for his club, alas Brett Lee wont be able to go and play for NSW or something.

chekmeout · 02-07-2005, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superkingdave

The commentators seem confused about it they were talking about someone replacing someone who had bowled his ten, and then bowling himself. This can't happen and i assume that if someone were to replace a player who has batted and got out, he can't bat himself

I think theres a slight chance you may be wrong. As far as I have understood the rule, it is possible for a substitute to bat although the person substituted off has already gotten out but in that case the regular number 11 is not allowed to bat.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong - this whole rule is pretty confusing.

02-07-2005, 06:08 AM	#1 (permalink)
Neil Pickup Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oxford, England Posts: 26,361	Substitution Tactics Okay, I know most of us don't like substitutions, but they're happening as of next week - so we might as well get used to it for the time being and have a think about how best they could be used. Let's hear some ideas! __________________ MSN Messenger: minardineil2000 at hotmail dot com \| AAAS Chairman CricketWeb Black \| CricketWeb XI Captain ClarkeWatch: We're Watching Rikki - Are You? Up The Grecians - Exeter City FC Completing the Square: My Cricket Web Blog

02-07-2005, 06:21 AM	#3 (permalink)
BoyBrumby Englishman Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Doing the stance Posts: 42,629	As I understand it the sub must be named before the toss (otherwise it's a real no-brainer), so I think generally subs will be bowlers who bat a bit & batters who bowl a bit so the captain (I'm assuming the captain has the say when to make the sub) has both suits covered. The Aussies could have someone like Symonds or Harvey as their sub. If they bat first someone like Hayden could be subbed & if they bowl McGrath would get the ar$e. If they bowl first I could see McGrath (or whoever) bowling out at the outset & then the sub coming straight on. I'm not in favour of subs, BTW. __________________ *- As featured in The Independent.* "This is not the time for namby-pamby promising youngsters who might just do something; not the time for building for the future. Pragmatism rules and they don't come more pragmatic than Rogers." - Victor Marks makes the case for stiff-legged and stiff-armed 35 year old left-handers in Ashes squads

02-07-2005, 06:27 AM	#4 (permalink)
superkingdave Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Inflection Points - 2 Posts: 18,291	The commentators seem confused about it they were talking about someone replacing someone who had bowled his ten, and then bowling himself. This can't happen and i assume that if someone were to replace a player who has batted and got out, he can't bat himself __________________ Dave Mohammed >>>> You ▲

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02-07-2005, 06:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
shaka International Regular Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: auckland NZ Posts: 3,045	First 10 overs will stay the same, then rest used between 20 and 40 over period, might make scores lower as unprepared batsman would need time before freeing up their arms.

02-07-2005, 06:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
Neil Pickup Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oxford, England Posts: 26,361	That's correct. For that reason I can't see tactics being much different to starting with seamers and replacing one quick with a batsman when he's bowled out.

02-07-2005, 06:43 AM	#7 (permalink)
shaka International Regular Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: auckland NZ Posts: 3,045	It would be most likely an allrounder who is quite good at both batting and bowling, e.g Cairns in his heyday would replace Chris Martin once he has bowled out, or a guy like Mark Richardson after he has batted

02-07-2005, 06:53 AM	#10 (permalink)
aussie Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cricket Posts: 16,845	well form what i understand you name your subs at the toss, but just a questiom how many players can be subsituted for the 2nd part of the innings??

02-07-2005, 07:01 AM	#12 (permalink)
shaka International Regular Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: auckland NZ Posts: 3,045	but then he could do the other, e.g. bat for Martin or field / bowl for Richardson, one really would not want Martin to bat or Richardson to field

02-07-2005, 07:06 AM	#14 (permalink)
shaka International Regular Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: auckland NZ Posts: 3,045	its likely to be an allrounder who gets the position under the new rules, ie someone who can do both, the choice afaik is done before the toss is made, ie when the team for the game is given to officials before walking to the pitch to conduct the toss. The substitute thing makes it more unlikely for a 12th man to go and play for his club, alas Brett Lee wont be able to go and play for NSW or something.

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