India announce 36 probables for SL series

[Arjun]

Indian selectors announce 36 probables

Cricinfo staff

June 21, 2005

The national selectors have announced a list of 36 probables for the upcoming triangular series to be held in Sri Lanka from August 1 to 14. The list included 16 medium-pacers, 14 batsmen, three wicketkeepers and three spinners.

It was announced that there would be three camps for the probables with the first one being a physical conditioning camp, from June 27 to July 4, exclusively for the fast bowlers. All the shortlisted players would then attend a second conditioning camp from July 5 to 12 before the final camp is held between July 13 to 22.

Most of the list was on expected lines and players with consistent performances in the domestic circuit - like Jai Prakash Yadav, Suresh Raina and Niraj Patel - were chosen. Parthiv Patel was the third wicketkeeper picked along with Dinesh Karthik and Mahendra Singh Dhoni.

The only selection that can be termed as a surprise was that of Munaf Patel, the fast bowler who plays for Mumbai. Munaf last played a first-class game way back in September 2004 and barring the Irani Trophy game, missed the entire season owing to injury.

List of probables

Batsmen Sourav Ganguly, Virender Sehwag, Rahul Dravid, Mohammed Kaif, Yuvraj Singh, VVS Laxman, Dinesh Mongia, Gautam Gambhir, Suresh Raina, Venugopala Rao, Niraj Patel, Dheeraj Jadhav, S Sriram, Hemang Badani

Medium-pacers Zaheer Khan, L Balaji, Ashish Nehra, Irfan Pathan, Ajit Agarkar, Gagandeep Singh, SS Paul, Ranadeb Bose, Harvinder Singh, Amit Bhandari, Siddharth Trivedi, Sree Santh, Joginder Sharma, Munaf Patel, JP Yadav, Rajamani Jesuraj

WIcket-keepers MS Dhoni, Dinesh Karthik, Parthiv Patel

Spinners Anil Kumble, Harbhajan Singh, Murali Kartik.

FEEDBACK:

• Chappel effect? Never have so many probables been announced, even for the World Cup! Looks like they're taking his interest in the bench strength seriously. That's good, and hopefully the relevant ones will get the India cap.
• Gambhir is a good choice and ideal for ODI's, and should be treated as a genuine batsman rather than just Sehwag's Test opening partner.
• Dinesh Mongia has done well for Warwickshire, but the Indian ODI side doesn't need him.
• Nor do they need Suresh Raina, Venugopal Rao, Sridharan Sriram, Niraj Patel or Hemang Badani, unless they have an intention of replacing Ganguly, which is most welcome. Otherwise, there are far too many batsmen, far too little relevance.
• For corn sakes, not Agarkar again! What great thing has he done in six years? And how has the team benefited from him? Just two major ODI victories in five years, which didn't even involve him!
• Balaji and Gagandeep are swing bowlers and are not suited to ODI's.
• Pathan shouldn't be brought back until he starts taking wickets for Baroda and India-A
• No doubt they've done well to cast the net wide, but four of the medium-pacers (how about fast bowlers instead?) don't stand a chance of national selection.
• Reward for Ranadeb Bose for consistent form, but fielding is a worry.
• Good to see JP Yadav picked- he is a very relevant selection, given he's in fantastic form with the ball and scored a lot with the bat as well, and can hit the ball very hard.
• Also good to find Joginder Sharma, but he's not seasoned and not yet ready for ODI's. Moreover, he's only good with a new ball, but struggles when it gets old. Should get some more time. Sanjay Bangar would be a better option. Hmmm...why not Bangar?
• Good to see Zaheer back, but he should be bowling with a fresh, new ball.
• The selectors seem bankrupt of ideas as far as wicketkeeping is concerned. Vinayak Samant and Ajay Ratra are better keepers than two of the three picked, while Dharmani is a better batsman.
• VR Singh is actually fast (unlike Munaf, who's only supposedly fast) and has a better FC record, and may be unlucky to miss out.
• Equally unaware of which spiners to pick. Kumble in ODIs is a controversial selection, but there is no way Murali Karthik should have been chosen, when Rajesh Pawar has doen a lot better and Ramesh Powar is a more capable batsman- a lot more than all the spinners.

Good broad selection, but for a few omissions (Powar, Pawar, VR Singh) and inclusions (Parthiv, both Karthiks, Agarkar, Munaf Patel).

 

[honestbharani]

what wrong has Dinesh Kaarthick done? You implied that his inclusion was wrong.

 

[Nate]

Haha, what a pointless act.

 

[ramkumar_gr]

FEEDBACK:

• Chappel effect? Never have so many probables been announced, even for the World Cup! Looks like they're taking his interest in the bench strength seriously. That's good, and hopefully the relevant ones will get the India cap.
• Gambhir is a good choice and ideal for ODI's, and should be treated as a genuine batsman rather than just Sehwag's Test opening partner.
• Dinesh Mongia has done well for Warwickshire, but the Indian ODI side doesn't need him.
• Nor do they need Suresh Raina, Venugopal Rao, Sridharan Sriram, Niraj Patel or Hemang Badani, unless they have an intention of replacing Ganguly, which is most welcome. Otherwise, there are far too many batsmen, far too little relevance.
• For corn sakes, not Agarkar again! What great thing has he done in six years? And how has the team benefited from him? Just two major ODI victories in five years, which didn't even involve him!
• Balaji and Gagandeep are swing bowlers and are not suited to ODI's.
• Pathan shouldn't be brought back until he starts taking wickets for Baroda and India-A
• No doubt they've done well to cast the net wide, but four of the medium-pacers (how about fast bowlers instead?) don't stand a chance of national selection.
• Reward for Ranadeb Bose for consistent form, but fielding is a worry.
• Good to see JP Yadav picked- he is a very relevant selection, given he's in fantastic form with the ball and scored a lot with the bat as well, and can hit the ball very hard.
• Also good to find Joginder Sharma, but he's not seasoned and not yet ready for ODI's. Moreover, he's only good with a new ball, but struggles when it gets old. Should get some more time. Sanjay Bangar would be a better option. Hmmm...why not Bangar?
• Good to see Zaheer back, but he should be bowling with a fresh, new ball.
• The selectors seem bankrupt of ideas as far as wicketkeeping is concerned. Vinayak Samant and Ajay Ratra are better keepers than two of the three picked, while Dharmani is a better batsman.
• VR Singh is actually fast (unlike Munaf, who's only supposedly fast) and has a better FC record, and may be unlucky to miss out.
• Equally unaware of which spiners to pick. Kumble in ODIs is a controversial selection, but there is no way Murali Karthik should have been chosen, when Rajesh Pawar has doen a lot better and Ramesh Powar is a more capable batsman- a lot more than all the spinners.

Good broad selection, but for a few omissions (Powar, Pawar, VR Singh) and inclusions (Parthiv, both Karthiks, Agarkar, Munaf Patel).

I dont really know where do you find mistakes with Dinesh Kaarthick's selection. Even to some extent, Murali Karthiks. He was the most economical bowler in most of the series he had played ( India vs WI in India).
Powar's performance in one-day domestic games was near to pathetic.
I agree with you on the selections of Parthiv and Agarkar.
I agree with you on bangar too. He has done little wrong.

For me the best selections are

Jesuraj, JP Yadav and Suresh Raina

Worst selections
Parthiv patel, Agarkar, Kumble

 

[Arjun]

what wrong has Dinesh Kaarthick done? You implied that his inclusion was wrong.

Ka'rthi'ks keeping is alright, but you have two wicketkeepers better than him. Plus, his batting in ODs isn't any good.

 

[Arjun]

Powar's performance in one-day domestic games was near to pathetic.

He hardly got a one-day match this season- just four. If they're playing three specialist seamers, they'll need a spinner who can bat, because none of the specialist spinners can make an impact on their own.

He was the most economical bowler in most of the series he had played ( India vs WI in India).

Not these days. He oversteps far too often, and tries to bowl for an economy rate rather than wickets- yet, he still gets hit for lots of sixes.

 

[honestbharani]

Ka'rthi'ks keeping is alright, but you have two wicketkeepers better than him. Plus, his batting in ODs isn't any good.

I don't think either of the two wicket keepers u think are better than him have actually been selected.


In terms of pure keeping skills, this is my order


Kaarthick > Dhoni > Patel

 

[viktor]

FEEDBACK:

• Chappel effect? Never have so many probables been announced, even for the World Cup! Looks like they're taking his interest in the bench strength seriously. That's good, and hopefully the relevant ones will get the India cap.
• Gambhir is a good choice and ideal for ODI's, and should be treated as a genuine batsman rather than just Sehwag's Test opening partner.
• Dinesh Mongia has done well for Warwickshire, but the Indian ODI side doesn't need him.
• Nor do they need Suresh Raina, Venugopal Rao, Sridharan Sriram, Niraj Patel or Hemang Badani, unless they have an intention of replacing Ganguly, which is most welcome. Otherwise, there are far too many batsmen, far too little relevance.
• For corn sakes, not Agarkar again! What great thing has he done in six years? And how has the team benefited from him? Just two major ODI victories in five years, which didn't even involve him!
• Balaji and Gagandeep are swing bowlers and are not suited to ODI's.
• Pathan shouldn't be brought back until he starts taking wickets for Baroda and India-A
• No doubt they've done well to cast the net wide, but four of the medium-pacers (how about fast bowlers instead?) don't stand a chance of national selection.
• Reward for Ranadeb Bose for consistent form, but fielding is a worry.
• Good to see JP Yadav picked- he is a very relevant selection, given he's in fantastic form with the ball and scored a lot with the bat as well, and can hit the ball very hard.
• Also good to find Joginder Sharma, but he's not seasoned and not yet ready for ODI's. Moreover, he's only good with a new ball, but struggles when it gets old. Should get some more time. Sanjay Bangar would be a better option. Hmmm...why not Bangar?
• Good to see Zaheer back, but he should be bowling with a fresh, new ball.
• The selectors seem bankrupt of ideas as far as wicketkeeping is concerned. Vinayak Samant and Ajay Ratra are better keepers than two of the three picked, while Dharmani is a better batsman.
• VR Singh is actually fast (unlike Munaf, who's only supposedly fast) and has a better FC record, and may be unlucky to miss out.
• Equally unaware of which spiners to pick. Kumble in ODIs is a controversial selection, but there is no way Murali Karthik should have been chosen, when Rajesh Pawar has doen a lot better and Ramesh Powar is a more capable batsman- a lot more than all the spinners.

Good broad selection, but for a few omissions (Powar, Pawar, VR Singh) and inclusions (Parthiv, both Karthiks, Agarkar, Munaf Patel).

some comments:
1) Mongia plays for Leics.
2) statistically AA has been better than the other 4 bowlers in the last 20 mts. so if he hasn't done anything of note, neither do they. remember, i mean only ODIs. for tests, i don't mind him being dropped.

pl: mts runs hi bt.av. 100 50 wkt bst bl.avg 5w ct st
AA: 20 252 53 21.00 0 1 32 6/42 25.81 1 2 0
ZK: 20 98 28* 14.00 0 0 23 3/66 40.56 0 4 0
LB: 20 101 21* 12.62 0 0 24 3/20 38.66 0 6 0
AN: 20 28 14* 5.60 0 0 29 4/72 31.75 0 3 0
IP: 20 239 64 23.90 0 1 33 3/28 26.81 0 3 0


3) Vinayak samant lost even in bombay place at the end of last season. he definitely is not in contention. though i wish he had been given a chance a couple of yrs ago...
4) Bangar is a steady bowler who doesnot/didnot have the variations to match his lack of pace. he would be found out on batting pitches. don't rate joginder sharma at all. he needs to work on his bowling for atleast one more season to be in serious contention, IMO.
5) agree about the spinners. btw u were discussing vidyut on some other thread. he is a l-spinner, isn't he? any good?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

He hardly got a one-day match this season- just four. If they're playing three specialist seamers, they'll need a spinner who can bat, because none of the specialist spinners can make an impact on their own.

Once again I question why Powar is so highly rated. I've heard he's better than his stats, but how much better can he really be? The man averages less than 20 in 36 OD innings and yet people regard him as a genuine allrounder. He averages over 30 with the ball, yet he is good enough to bowl at international players as the fourth/fifth bowler?

 

[cricket player]

Once again I question why Powar is so highly rated. I've heard he's better than his stats, but how much better can he really be? The man averages less than 20 in 36 OD innings and yet people regard him as a genuine allrounder. He averages over 30 with the ball, yet he is good enough to bowl at international players as the fourth/fifth bowler?

Powar is one famous man,because he has won alot of matches for his team in domestic levels,Suppose his team needed 40 of the last 3 over and blasted a good knock.

 

[viktor]

i don't know the stats but Powar has been very consistent for mumbai in the ranji trophy, the 4-day competition. however, even his most strongest supporters can't see him displacing bhajji in the test team, hence the clamour for his inclusion in the odi side. the guy is a terrific fighter, won't hurt to have him in the side.

 

[Arjun]

some comments:
1) Mongia plays for Leics.
2) statistically AA has been better than the other 4 bowlers in the last 20 mts. so if he hasn't done anything of note, neither do they. remember, i mean only ODIs. for tests, i don't mind him being dropped.

pl: mts runs hi bt.av. 100 50 wkt bst bl.avg 5w ct st
AA: 20 252 53 21.00 0 1 32 6/42 25.81 1 2 0
ZK: 20 98 28* 14.00 0 0 23 3/66 40.56 0 4 0
LB: 20 101 21* 12.62 0 0 24 3/20 38.66 0 6 0
AN: 20 28 14* 5.60 0 0 29 4/72 31.75 0 3 0
IP: 20 239 64 23.90 0 1 33 3/28 26.81 0 3 0


3) Vinayak samant lost even in bombay place at the end of last season. he definitely is not in contention. though i wish he had been given a chance a couple of yrs ago...
4) Bangar is a steady bowler who doesnot/didnot have the variations to match his lack of pace. he would be found out on batting pitches. don't rate joginder sharma at all. he needs to work on his bowling for atleast one more season to be in serious contention, IMO.
5) agree about the spinners. btw u were discussing vidyut on some other thread. he is a l-spinner, isn't he? any good?

1. Mistake.....they just played a match against Warwicks last....Warwicks and Leicester were the first two teams I had seen on television way back in 96.
2. Agarkar bowls that odd wicket-taking delivery, but rubbish otherwise- it can let off any batting side when they're on the mat. Zaheer has been bowling a lot more often with the old ball, and that's not something he's good at. Otherwise, he's one of the better ODI bowlers in this team.
3. Balaji's not suited to ODIs, though he's much better with the old ball. If none of them have done much of note, they can try out a fresh, new set led by Zaheer.
4. Vinayak Samant's exclusion from the Mumbai side was one of the dumbest things the Mumbai selectors had done- neither of the replacements have been any good with the bat, nor are they proven successes keeping to the Mumbai spinners, who operate in threes.
5. Bangar kees a line and length for a long time. With the new ball, he can get a good bouncer across, and has added some varations in the recent past. Since you may not get coverage of A-team or domestic matches in the US, you've missed one series where Bangar bowled very well and got nearly 7 overs a match, and outperformed the supposedly faster Munaf Patel.
6. J Sharma's not seasoned, but if they're looking for all-rounders, targetting the 2007 World Cup, he's a good potential-over-performance pick, and given the form of the frontline pacers, he can't be too bad a choice. He's more of a touch player than he is a power player.
7. Vidyut was a frontline spinner and a hard-hitting batsman, but injuries, coupled with a faulty training pattern, had him playing as a slightly-better-than-average opener and bits-and-pieces spinner. He's done decently as a batsman, but given how weak the TN attack was, he had a lot more bowlign to do, and he's done well. We'd prefer he revert to his old role as a strike left-arm spinner.

 

[Arjun]

Once again I question why Powar is so highly rated. I've heard he's better than his stats, but how much better can he really be? The man averages less than 20 in 36 OD innings and yet people regard him as a genuine allrounder. He averages over 30 with the ball, yet he is good enough to bowl at international players as the fourth/fifth bowler?

• Forget about list-A figures for matches in India- they're a joke. The whole OD system in India is dumb- I had posted an article on this form not too long ago.
• Harbhajan isn't as good on his own and he needs a spin partner. Powar will do quite well.
• He's a much better bowler than that awful Sachin/Sehwag/Yuvraj combo- while they just bowl roulette rubbish, he's a lot more serious.
• It's a better strategy to use him at number 8, with another hitter before him. He's good enough for that.
• Sure, he averages 30 with the ball, but Kumble, the team's frontline spinner, averages over 50 since 2004, and Karthik is a one-dayer misfit. Why not play him instead?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

But Kumble has taken international wickets. The likes of Powar has struggled somewhat against domestic batsmen. Regardless of his bowling average, his economy is not amazing at all. You'd expect both stats to be as poor or worse when he crosses over to a full international.

 

[marc71178]

Forget about list-A figures for matches in India- they're a joke. The whole OD system in India is dumb- I had posted an article on this form not too long ago.

But if he's not doing well in this joke cricket, what's to suggest he'd do well in ODIs?

 

[Craig]

Ajay Ratra/ What did he ever do? Score a hundred on a wicket even Neil could have got runs on?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Indeed. Ajay Ratra was fairly terrible.

 

[Arjun]

But Kumble has taken international wickets. The likes of Powar has struggled somewhat against domestic batsmen. Regardless of his bowling average, his economy is not amazing at all. You'd expect both stats to be as poor or worse when he crosses over to a full international.

Kumble has not taken too many international wickets in the last year or so, and has gone for too many runs between wickets. Powar's average is not too bad, given that he can also bat, but he's proven himself in the four-day game as a strike spinner, which is a clearer indication of how good he is. He's not one player whom you can pick because of a fantastic batting or bowling performance, but a complete all-round contribution which can make a difference. You're talking of a team here, not just eleven accmomplished individuals. You can't expect anything about someone you know so little about.

 

[Arjun]

Ajay Ratra/ What did he ever do? Score a hundred on a wicket even Neil could have got runs on?

And what great thing have Harbhajan Singh, Zaheer Khan, Anil Kumble, Ashish Nehra, Balaji and Murali Karthik ever do with the bat? Score two FC centuries? With eleven over 50? You don't pick icketkeepers on their batting, but because of one very important job they perform behind the stumps. Mediocre wicketkeepers have played for the Indian team for the last three years, and the team has suffered because of that.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Kumble has not taken too many international wickets in the last year or so, and has gone for too many runs between wickets. Powar's average is not too bad, given that he can also bat, but he's proven himself in the four-day game as a strike spinner, which is a clearer indication of how good he is. He's not one player whom you can pick because of a fantastic batting or bowling performance, but a complete all-round contribution which can make a difference. You're talking of a team here, not just eleven accmomplished individuals. You can't expect anything about someone you know so little about.

Call me uneducated if you will, but I'd still like to see these results Powar is likely to bring to the table. His player type may be needed in the Indian team, but whether he's good enough to fill that role is what I question. That said, I'm uneducated, so I'll let it be.