***Official*** NatWest Series/Challenge

[superkingdave]

though to be fair Harvey averaged over 60 last year and over 30 this year so far. Chapple used to be a lot quicker than he is now, his success with the ball this year has suprised a lot of us Lancashire fans as he was pretty teririble last year. Sidebottom certainly used to be quick and im sure he is quicker than someone like Hoggard even now after his injuries - Kabir Ali i would say was at least Hoggard pace.

Certainly i would expect that there are several in Australia at the pace or Ali and Sidebottom

 

[Scaly piscine]

Certainly i would expect that there are several in Australia at the pace or Ali and Sidebottom

Well there are a few playing for Australia for a start...

 

[tooextracool]

the lads career has just started, so its common for newbies to be poor at the start of their career, your underating his ability with the ball mate, their is much potential their, more than Freddie had at this stage of his career and look at him now, just give the bloke a chance TEC...

a lot of people have had more potential than flintoff at the start of their career, but very few have amounted to anything at all.

 

[tooextracool]

It's generally harder for bits and pieces players to have success in Australian FC cricket than English, mainly because of the conditions. Paul Collingwood is a perfect example of a player who is quite a good bowler when he has the right wicket (see Headingley in the NWC), but give him a flat Adelaide deck and he'll stuggle to average under 50. This is why medium pace all-rounders are so prevalent in the county championship but extremely rare in Australian FC cricket.

I'm not suggesting taking a 10-fer alone makes him a great bowler, but it's a fair bit harder to fluke one in Australian cricket.

i think the assumption would then be that its also easier to score runs with the bat in australia then it is in england

 

[tooextracool]

There's other genuine mediums who have good records in England too, like Mark Davies, and isn't Glen Chapple a medium pacer too? Also, looking at the top FC averages in England this season, you've got guys like Jon Lewis, Kabir Ali, Ryan Sidebottom etc who are slower than any successful international bowler.

are you serious?
do you honestly think that jon lewis, kabir Ali and ryan sidebottom are slower than mcgrath or pollock?

 

[aussie]

a lot of people have had more potential than flintoff at the start of their career, but very few have amounted to anything at all.

fair enough, but what i'm saying is give him a chance to prove himself at this level before you write him off completely also Tait before he has played international cricket...

 

[marc71178]

Well, bowlers who dart it around in English conditions but don't have the pace, bounce or accuracy to be particularly successful at international level are quite common yes, and generally bowling averages are lower in the CC than in Australia.

Oh right, you mean the good old county bowler as I call them (ie they do what is required in CC, but that's the best they can hope for.

There's loads of them - Dean, Saggers, Kirtley, Lewis, Brown, Bicknell, ...

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Oh right, you mean the good old county bowler as I call them (ie they do what is required in CC, but that's the best they can hope for.

There's loads of them - Dean, Saggers, Kirtley, Lewis, Brown, Bicknell, ...

County trundlers, yes. Those sorts of bowlers generally don't have much success in Australia, which is why you see guys like Harvey being brilliant front liners in England and stock 5th bowler options in Australia. Hence, Watson's 10-fer is worthy of note, even if it doesn't mean much on its own.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

are you serious?
do you honestly think that jon lewis, kabir Ali and ryan sidebottom are slower than mcgrath or pollock?

Yes? Although Pollock these days is dropping down to around Lewis pace, McGrath still bowls on the right side of 130. Besides, it's not just the pace, but Lewis basically just throws it up there and hopes for movement. You can't be successful doing that in Australia, because the ball doesn't swing or seam enough to allow it.

Regarding run scoring in Australia, I don't think there's a massive difference, given that the quality of the competition is higher in Australia due to the vastly lower number of teams. You've got players who succeed in England but not in Australia like Hussey, and there's no doubt examples of players who succeed in Australia but not in England (although offhand I can't think of any... except players like Clarke who never did that well in Australia either). Really though, it's not so much that bowling is that much better in Australia, just that the competitions allow for different specialisations. Someone like Ian Harvey is never going to dominate in Australia, while someone like Brad Williams might not be so successful in England as he is at the WACA.

 

[superkingdave]

yeah but Kabir and Ryan are a fair bit quicker than John Lewis

 

[tooextracool]

Yes? Although Pollock these days is dropping down to around Lewis pace, McGrath still bowls on the right side of 130. Besides, it's not just the pace, but Lewis basically just throws it up there and hopes for movement. You can't be successful doing that in Australia, because the ball doesn't swing or seam enough to allow it..

err yes i know that lewis isnt much of a bowler but hes most certainly faster than shaun pollock, while not exactly being faster than mcgrath. i think the fact that the keeper stands up to lewis makes him look a lot slower than he actually is. im fairly certain though that both kabir ali and sidebottom are at least as fast as mcgrath ATM if not faster, certainly a hell of a lot faster than pollock whos really no more than medium pace.

Regarding run scoring in Australia, I don't think there's a massive difference, given that the quality of the competition is higher in Australia due to the vastly lower number of teams. You've got players who succeed in England but not in Australia like Hussey, and there's no doubt examples of players who succeed in Australia but not in England (although offhand I can't think of any... except players like Clarke who never did that well in Australia either). Really though, it's not so much that bowling is that much better in Australia, just that the competitions allow for different specialisations. Someone like Ian Harvey is never going to dominate in Australia, while someone like Brad Williams might not be so successful in England as he is at the WACA.

exactly, some players are more suited to australian conditions while some are to english conditions. which is why taking a 10fer shouldnt really be rated that highly.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

exactly, some players are more suited to australian conditions while some are to english conditions. which is why taking a 10fer shouldnt really be rated that highly.

So you're claiming Watson's bowling is naturally suited to Australian conditions for some reason then? I really don't see that, and in fact I'd say the opposite, which is why maintaining an average of 28 there shows that he isn't useless.

Anyway, I'm interested to see how he goes bowling on the Rose Bowl wicket, since he seems to enjoy seam movement quite a lot, although I think he'd prefer a traditional pacy green top than a slow, low seamer. Just the one wicket in his first FC game there.

 

[tooextracool]

So you're claiming Watson's bowling is naturally suited to Australian conditions for some reason then? I really don't see that, and in fact I'd say the opposite, which is why maintaining an average of 28 there shows that he isn't useless.

i just think that he may just have got a seamer friendly wicket and some very poor shots played against him during that 10fer.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

i just think that he may just have got a seamer friendly wicket and some very poor shots played against him during that 10fer.

A seamer friendly pitch at Bellerive? Well, I didn't see the game and it was a low scoring one, but that's about the last pitch in the world I'd expect to be a seamer.

Here's the scorecard if you're interested... some good players in that game too. 11 for 78.

http://www.cricketarchive.co.uk/Archive/Scorecards/f/45/f45827.html

 

[aussie]

one thing you can say about this bowling performace is that he took it when his bowling was still coming up, but you must agree Faaip that that was a weakish bulls batting line-up