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Thread: Botham vs Flintoff

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    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Botham vs Flintoff

    With comparisons of these two england all rounders all over the place these days and cropping up everywhere i thought it would be best if we slogged out the debate on here. To be honest i havent seen a great deal of Botham as a player so i am perhaps in-equipped to make any analogy of this, but what are everyone elses opinions? Is Flintoff in control of the talent that is equal or superior to Botham? if not then will he ever? or is he destined to remain fat freddie who is as simple as bangers and mash?

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    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Flintoff is nowhere near as good with the bat or the ball as Botham was at his best. Botham was a devastating bowler capable of ripping through opposition batting lineups, bowled far more than Flintoff and took far more wickets. Flintoff is merely a good bowler, Botham was a great. And with the bat, Botham played far more great innings than Flintoff, although they are somewhat similar in their ability to be devastating but problems with inconsistency, and Flintoff hasn't really had the chance to prove himself properly with the bat yet.
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    Flintoff is a better batsman, Botham is a more devastating bowler. In a strong side like England's I'd take the consistent quality of Flintoff over the hit or miss stuff from Botham.
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    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    fred hit and miss with the bat isnt really consistant either.


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    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine
    Flintoff is a better batsman, Botham is a more devastating bowler. In a strong side like England's I'd take the consistent quality of Flintoff over the hit or miss stuff from Botham.
    You sure Freddie is a better batsman than Botham i have seen clips of Botham bat & i dont think so. How can you day Botham was hit & miss? , his batting was nothing of the sort according to what i have heard and seen on video

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    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    I think ability wise they are pretty even in the batting department, but Botham probably shades it.

    As bowlers, they are two completely different types. Without a doubt early on Botham was astonishing...a real master of swing bowling..something Flintoff doesnt do.Flintoff I think though will prove to be a more consistant bowler..probably becuase Botham was one of the most aggressive bowlers in attitude you will ever find,which led to more of a rollercoaster performance.

    I dont think I have ever seen a better slip man than Botham ...Flintoff though must be one of thebest slip fieldsmen in the world today.

    So ATM Botham has the edge...but I really wouldnt be surprised if in 20 years time, Flintoff is looked back on in a similar light as Beefy
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    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    So ATM Botham has the edge...but I really wouldnt be surprised if in 20 years time, Flintoff is looked back on in a similar light as Beefy
    wont be surprised either and maybe when Freddie retires we could make a better argument of who was a better all-rounder for england.

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    International Coach archie mac's Avatar
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    I know as an Australian supporter I always wanted to see the back of Both headed to the sheds, he could take a game away from you with the bat, a bit like Gilly today.

    With the ball sometimes he looked 2nd rate, but would suddenly take three wickets in a couple of overs. Add some great reflex catches, and I am becoming nervous just thinking of the man.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    You sure Freddie is a better batsman than Botham i have seen clips of Botham bat & i dont think so. How can you day Botham was hit & miss? , his batting was nothing of the sort according to what i have heard and seen on video
    I'm sure the 'video' was just highlights of all the times he came off. He most certainly was hit and miss.

    Botham's batting average is higher by 1.1 runs, however Flintoff's average is still dragged down significantly by his early crapness when he shouldn't have been picked - I'll be surprised if he doesn't average near 40 by the end of his career, Flintoff also scores more quickly.

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    So far, its a no contest.
    Botham and Flintoff are both excellent slippers and similar batsmen, though botham was a superior bowler.
    Wouldnt call him devastating, as it would be an injustice to the word 'devastating' but he was good.
    Keep in mind- Botham after his initial few years, declined rapidly- batsmen found him out and while batting,fast bowling was his nemesis.
    Flintoff on the other hand, just keeps getting better and better.
    This comparison would be better suited after 3-4 seasons, due to the diametrically opposite career paths of these two. Its akin to comparing Tendulkar and Lara in 95-96. Since Lara started with a bang and Tendy was slow to shine, back then it would seem like a no contest.
    10 years after that, Tendulkar is either considered superior or in touching distance of Lara.

    I personally dont think Flintoff would amount to much as he is quiete injury prone and his stats are mediocre despite him being already at his physical peak. The way i see it, Flintoff has 4-5 years left in his career and beyond that, it is gonna be one bumpy ride for him. That is about 40-50 tests more at max. Say he plays 35-40 more tests.
    Would that be enough to bring up his stats to Botham's level ?
    I am skeptical but we shall see

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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    You sure Freddie is a better batsman than Botham i have seen clips of Botham bat & i dont think so. How can you day Botham was hit & miss? , his batting was nothing of the sort according to what i have heard and seen on video
    In that case, what you've heard and seen on video has given you an incorrect impression.. After 1981, Botham's performances with the bat were very often anti-climactic, since we'd sit there waiting for him to come out and blast a load of runs, and then he'd come out and be out for 8. About once a series, he'd really turn it on. It was quite likely to turn the match when he did it, but it wasn't a particularly frequent occurrence.

    Fred had a pretty awful series with the bat in SA, but the way he batted in 2004, with a lot more emphasis on staying at the crease and shot selection, was not an approach one would really associate with Beefy. We will have to see how Flintoff's batting develops, but he is on the way to being a much better bat than Botham was.

    As a bowler Flintoff is not now nor will he ever be a better bowler than Botham 1.0. He's now about at the level of Botham 2.0. It remains to be seen whether he will be able to continue to bowl at that level or decline to Botham 3.0 dreadfulness.

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    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine
    I'm sure the 'video' was just highlights of all the times he came off. He most certainly was hit and miss.

    Botham's batting average is higher by 1.1 runs, however Flintoff's average is still dragged down significantly by his early crapness when he shouldn't have been picked - I'll be surprised if he doesn't average near 40 by the end of his career, Flintoff also scores more quickly.
    well you saw him bat so has my father who says exactly what you are saying so i am inclined to agree

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    Flintoff cannot be compared to Botham in the batting department yet, Botham is miles ahead.

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    Flintoff is a batting all-rounder while Botham was a genuine one as he was a match winner with both bat and ball.U can't compare arising stars with the greatness of legends.
    Last edited by Shoaib; 01-06-2005 at 11:08 PM.

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    If we are talking test cricket there is no comparison !!

    Botham is one of the greats of all time. Flintoff isn't even one of the great test players of his era yet.

    Yet another "overhyped" Freddie Thread - What a suprise - yawn yawn

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