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andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Scaly piscine said:
Heh, he obviously doesn't remember the last innings in the 2nd game where he got absolutely crucial wickets in a crucial game... but this is Motson we're talking about I guess.
No, I meant get over digging up a thread just so to say 'HAHAHA you were wrong, Harmison's ER in the Ashes didn't turn out to be 3.5, it was 3.45.' It happened six months ago, and we've already had to endure the petty reviving of comments made however many years ago.

Sorry, long day.
 

archie mac

International Coach
tooextracool said:
yes and as such hes failed miserably against 2 out of 3 of them and been average against the third on turners.
Oh please not the 'Ponting can't bat on turners' again :ph34r:
 

Robertinho

Cricketer Of The Year
Richard said:
And of course Harmison ended-up making such a difference to the series, didn't he?
Do you spend your spare time browsing through every single thread of this forum to find something about Harmison?...
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
andyc said:
No, I meant get over digging up a thread just so to say 'HAHAHA you were wrong, Harmison's ER in the Ashes didn't turn out to be 3.5, it was 3.45.' It happened six months ago, and we've already had to endure the petty reviving of comments made however many years ago.

Sorry, long day.
Yea I know, but I was just emphasising that he was wrong, as usual - he digs up a thread which has a mile long ramble to say how great his predictions were then manages to highlights one of the doltish ones when there must be, by law of averages, a few that turned out correct. Quite amusing really.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
FaaipDeOiad said:
Ponting has failed in one place - India. It so happens that two of the spinners you mentioned are Indian, and Ponting has has success against them outside of India, to quite massive degrees, including four centuries against Kumble.
and how many of those 100s were on turners. 0
infact the only time he played on a turner against kumble(or something that offered any sort of assistance to spinners) was in Sydney 2003/04 where not surprisingly he failed to register a 50.

FaaipDeOiad said:
He's also performed against Murali, both in Sri Lanka and elsewhere, Kaneria, who called Ponting the best batsman he had bowled to after he scored a double century against him on a turner, Saqlain, and of course the less impressive names like Vettori, Giles, Boje etc.
i couldnt care less about what Kaneria calls ponting. Imran Khan has referred to Inzamam as the best player of pace bowling since Richards, am i supposed to believe that?

FaaipDeOiad said:
Ponting has performed in turning conditions plenty of times really, and he's one of the more accomplished players of spin around. In fact, just to counter the inevitable response that he is suddenly crap against spin when it's being bowled from both ends on a turner, he made 150 on a turner against Saqlain and Kaneria in 2002, probably the only time has faced two good spinners at once outside of Kumble/Harbhajan.
Kaneria a good bowler back in 2002? surely you must be joking.
Further as ive said before there is no evidence that that pitch was a turner given how many wickets the 2 pakistan spinners took in the game.


FaaipDeOiad said:
Earlier in that same series he made another century on a pitch in which the two spinners selected took 19 wickets. He has a superb record at the SCG, his record elsewhere in the subcontinent is fine, and his record on the occasional turner one finds in other parts of the world is fine as well. If Ponting has a significant weakness in his game, it's not spin, but quality pace bowling early in his innigs. You can get him then by bowling it wide of off and moving it away, because he goes so hard at the ball before he's set at the crease. And while he can also get out caught close against spin early in his innings at times because of his hard hands, his failures against spin outside of India are few and far betwen, especially in the last 2 or 3 years.
Ponting has plenty of weaknesses. fact is that hes managed to work his way around most of them, while have some of them(his inability to play spin on turners) completely exposed.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
andyc said:
Oh get over it.
Get over what?
Harmison did not make any real contribution to England's victory - and thus I was right not to mention him much.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Scaly piscine said:
Heh, he obviously doesn't remember the last innings in the 2nd game where he got absolutely crucial wickets in a crucial game... but this is Motson we're talking about I guess.
1 crucial wicket... which should have already been taken twice... with a nothing delivery at that...
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Robertinho said:
Do you spend your spare time browsing through every single thread of this forum to find something about Harmison?...
No, I referred to this thread in SD and was inspired to dig it.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Scaly piscine said:
Yea I know, but I was just emphasising that he was wrong, as usual - he digs up a thread which has a mile long ramble to say how great his predictions were then manages to highlights one of the doltish ones when there must be, by law of averages, a few that turned out correct. Quite amusing really.
So find these countless ones that turned-out to be wrong...
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
tooextracool said:
its going to be said until he actually proves everyone wrong.
Well I don't know about everyone... it really seems to be your personal complaint more than anything else. Anyway, he has proved it wrong repeatedly, you just discount every instance of it.

Ponting is quite clearly a better batsman today than he was 5 years ago... that's obvious to anyone who watches him play. He's better against pace, and significantly better against spin. He might have played 8 tests in India, but he's not played there in the last 5 years aside from a one-off test, and he might never get the chance to play there again. If he finishes his career averaging close to 60 and dominates spin on turning wickets all over the world until then, claiming he couldn't play spin because of two poor series early in his career is just ridiculous.

The pitches turned for that entire Pakistan series, really. Warne averaged something like 14 in it, and turned the ball square in every game. Saqlain also bowled very well at times, but Hayden, Ponting and Waugh also played him well so he didn't always return good figures. That's hardly a very good argument for the pitch not being a turner. India isn't the only place the ball turns, and if he genuinely had a problem on turning wickets don't you think it would have been exposed by some other bowler somewhere? Murali in Sri Lanka maybe? Various people at Sydney? Saqlain in Sharjah?
 
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marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Richard said:
Harmison did not make any real contribution to England's victory - and thus I was right not to mention him much.
43.4 Harmison to Clarke, OUT: slower ball on the middle stump, Clarke is
completely fooled by this one. What a ball to bowl at the end of a
day like this! Clarke is flummoxed and clean bowled!
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Richard said:
1 crucial wicket... which should have already been taken twice... with a nothing delivery at that...
You what?

A superb slower ball is suddenly a nothing delivery?

I wonder if it would've been a nothing ball had Nel bowled it?
 

tooextracool

International Coach
FaaipDeOiad said:
Well I don't know about everyone... it really seems to be your personal complaint more than anything else. Anyway, he has proved it wrong repeatedly, you just discount every instance of it.

Ponting is quite clearly a better batsman today than he was 5 years ago... that's obvious to anyone who watches him play. He's better against pace, and significantly better against spin. He might have played 8 tests in India, but he's not played there in the last 5 years aside from a one-off test, and he might never get the chance to play there again. If he finishes his career averaging close to 60 and dominates spin on turning wickets all over the world until then, claiming he couldn't play spin because of two poor series early in his career is just ridiculous.
he is quite clearly a better batsman today than he was 5 years ago but is he a better player of spin? the fact that you have to go all the way back to the SL tour of 99 to show that he could play spin on turning wickets says a fair bit IMO. and Ponting has never 'dominated spin on turning tracks', he merely hasnt played enough against quality bowlers on turning wickets.

FaaipDeOiad said:
The pitches turned for that entire Pakistan series, really. Warne averaged something like 14 in it, and turned the ball square in every game. Saqlain also bowled very well at times, but Hayden, Ponting and Waugh also played him well so he didn't always return good figures. That's hardly a very good argument for the pitch not being a turner. India isn't the only place the ball turns, and if he genuinely had a problem on turning wickets don't you think it would have been exposed by some other bowler somewhere? Murali in Sri Lanka maybe? Various people at Sydney? Saqlain in Sharjah?
These various people on turning wickets at Sydney that hes succeded on have largely been very ordinary spin bowlers. Ponting has never proven himself to be brilliant against spin, even against the rest hes usually been acceptable.
 

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Richard said:
Get over what?
Harmison did not make any real contribution to England's victory - and thus I was right not to mention him much.
Eight posts up...

andyc said:
No, I meant get over digging up a thread just so to say 'HAHAHA you were wrong, Harmison's ER in the Ashes didn't turn out to be 3.5, it was 3.45.' It happened six months ago, and we've already had to endure the petty reviving of comments made however many years ago.

Sorry, long day.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
marc71178 said:
43.4 Harmison to Clarke, OUT: slower ball on the middle stump, Clarke is
completely fooled by this one. What a ball to bowl at the end of a
day like this! Clarke is flummoxed and clean bowled!
And of course that made such a huge difference, didn't it?
The game was pretty much up by then.
Not that it was much of a delivery relative to what it was talked-up as, anyway.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
marc71178 said:
You what?

A superb slower ball is suddenly a nothing delivery?

I wonder if it would've been a nothing ball had Nel bowled it?
Harmison and "superb slower-ball" do not go together. The Harmison slower-ball is about the most obvious one in The World. No Harmison slower-ball is anything that a stock-ball isn't. Clarke quite obviously spotted it, he just played the wrong line - exactly, coincidentally, as he did again (with a ball of normal speed) in the Super Series Test...
In any case, I was clearly referring to the Kasprowicz wicket.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Richard said:
And of course that made such a huge difference, didn't it?
The game was pretty much up by then.
Rubbish.

Bearing in mind how close Australia got with 2 wickets left and only tailenders in on the Sunday morning, that wicket was critical.
 

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