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Who Would Want to Bowl?

archie mac

International Coach
Richard said:
I've thought the same thing about many of the matters for quite a while... my take on the matters...
1, the boundaries being roped off is OK, the boards can be dangerous, but the stupidity is in wasting the large amount of space you regularly see wasted by bringing them in far, far too far.
2, better bat technology is here to stay. I don't see any harm in it myself, you can still get power and no power, depending on the backlift and speed of arms. And no good bat technology can make a good delivery into a bad one.
3, the bouncer limitation has been in place for some time and really makes not a tremendous amount of difference. Bouncers are relatively harmless and being disallowed from bowling too many actually increases a bowler's chances of effectiveness.
4, back-to-back Test-matches and crammed-in tours are one of the biggest evils of the current era. Something needs to be done about it - my choice would be a reduction in the number of Test and full-time ODI sides and an assauging of the 10-year plan.
5, applying "non-natural" substances has been banned for as long as people have used them. It's easy to keep a ball in good condition with just sweat, spit and rubbing on the trousers.
6, over-rates are poor enough as it is, without more leeway being given. They were far quicker in bygone days, and there is far, far too much hiatus between deliveries as it is.
7, the obsession with "good" pitches goes far too far and there isn't enough assistance for spinners in the subcontinent and seamers elsewhere ATM.


I agree with all of that Richard, but can't see the harm in letting the bowler use resin or dirt for grip. The way they carried on about poor Atherton you would think he had used a bottle top; oh hold on wrong team.
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Rich2001 said:
I've always look at it like this, Yes the batsman might have the game tailored his way in a couple of areas but remember that a batsman only has one life, a bowler has an infiante amount of chances to redeem that poor delivery (he could bowl rubbish all day long but still pick up a 5 fer), if a batsman has a poor shot the chances are he(she) is walking back to the hut.

And at the end of the day Cricket just like anything else in the world is a business to an extent, fans want to see some action and generally it's the batsman hitting big shots that gets the fans going, not dot ball after dot ball.

Iam guessing that your still a purist and love Test matches, just like the rest of us here :cool:

As for the Ad boards, I watched on TV only 2/3 seasons ago Alan Donald broke a couple of ribs when he went for a catch and ended up bent over backwars on top of the boards, looked like it hurt a fair bit to me!

England's very own Steve Harmison had a nasty run in with an Ads board as well, that resulted in him bowling 8 wides in a row agaisnt some Aussies outfit, nasty concussion I blieve.
hahaha. Yeah it lasted for quite a few months! :p
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
archie mac said:
I agree with all of that Richard, but can't see the harm in letting the bowler use resin or dirt for grip. The way they carried on about poor Atherton you would think he had used a bottle top; oh hold on wrong team.
Stupid thing, of course, is that Atherton wasn't doing anything illegal, he was simply drying his hands on dust in his pocket.
He then dug himself a hole by lying about it.
 

Top_Cat

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I've always look at it like this, Yes the batsman might have the game tailored his way in a couple of areas but remember that a batsman only has one life, a bowler has an infiante amount of chances to redeem that poor delivery (he could bowl rubbish all day long but still pick up a 5 fer), if a batsman has a poor shot the chances are he(she) is walking back to the hut.
Oooooo, Rich! Damn you for sucking me into this one (from a bowler's perspective). :)

I can't argue with your logic but there are a few points which maybe need to be said;

Does a batsman truly only have one life? How about balls going through slips/edged for four, miscues which JUST clear fielders' heads, etc.? That's ignoring dropped catches (which probably isn't relevent). Umpiring decisions can go either way so they're probably not relevent either.

Yes a bowler can bowl rubbish all day and pick up 5-fer but a bowler can also bowl magnificently, best they've ever bowled, and be too good to pick up a wicket. Alan Donald was a victim of this on quite a few occasions I remember.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
It's exceptionally hard to bowl too well to pick-up wickets.
If you're getting loads of play-and-misses, some are going to hit the stumps eventually. Similarly, some are going to be slightly less good deliveries and turn from Jaffas into wicket-taking deliveries.
 

Rich2001

International Captain
Top_Cat said:
Oooooo, Rich! Damn you for sucking me into this one (from a bowler's perspective). :)

I can't argue with your logic but there are a few points which maybe need to be said;

Does a batsman truly only have one life? How about balls going through slips/edged for four, miscues which JUST clear fielders' heads, etc.? That's ignoring dropped catches (which probably isn't relevent). Umpiring decisions can go either way so they're probably not relevent either.
That's a fair point I would personally say it was the other way around though, I would only count dropped catches, as they are lifes (like you say noone has control over the ump's mind)... IMO if you edge through the slips it's a doggy shot but it's not the batsman's fault that the captain didn't have a feilder there (the batsman would probaley say he was running it down to 3rd man 8-) ) - and if it clears a fielders head then the batsman hasn't really been given a life as nothing really has happened, whereas if it's dropped then in all reality the bowler "should" have got a wicket but bad luck let him down.
 

badgerhair

U19 Vice-Captain
Rich2001 said:
I've always look at it like this, Yes the batsman might have the game tailored his way in a couple of areas but remember that a batsman only has one life, a bowler has an infiante amount of chances to redeem that poor delivery (he could bowl rubbish all day long but still pick up a 5 fer), if a batsman has a poor shot the chances are he(she) is walking back to the hut.

And at the end of the day Cricket just like anything else in the world is a business to an extent, fans want to see some action and generally it's the batsman hitting big shots that gets the fans going, not dot ball after dot ball.
Fans can get bored of big shot after big shot if wickets never fall. Witness the unutterable tedium of Test matches in Antigua.

Action depends on there being a reasonable balance between bat and ball, not dominance of one over the other.

One of the few things averages are actually good for is demonstrating the bat-ball balance in different eras.

In the 30s, the constant manicuring of pitches over decades had led to featherbeds on which batsman could bat all day and bowlers despaired (and eventually to bodyline), and that's why the averages of people like Larwood and Tate look so poor and those of Sutcliffe and couple of others so amazing.

The reaction was the welcome extension of the lbw Law to allow the ball to pitch outisde off, and the extremely unfortunate underpreparation of pitches which was tantamount to doctoring, climaxing with the shoddy disgrace of Old Trafford 1956 which turned square on the first morning (not that Jim Laker ever complained), but carrying on to the extent that when Peter May mused to Everton Weekes that there was little answer to Laker and Lock, Weekes's reply was that there was no answer at all in those conditions. As a result, you had batsmen conditioned to the grimly defensive, so that the 56-57 tour of South Africa, which sounds on paper to have been rather exciting with SA coming back from a 2-2 deficit to square the series, was so indescribably tedious to watch that Jim Swanton was accused of faking injury to avoid having to report on it.

In the Fifties, you had most of the leading bowlers with averages well under 20 and hardly a batsman in the 40s - and an all-time great batsman like Peter May gets left out of a lot of people's lists because he only averaged 47, even though it was amazingly high for the period.

Today's averages are very similar to those of the 30s, with decent Test bowlers struggling to keep their average below 30 and anyone below 25 being very good indeed, and seemingly dozens of batsmen with 50+ averages.

The time-recovery mechanisms now in place which compensate for the weather mean that we now get more results than would otherwise be the case, which is partially reflected in the 1930s by the fact that all Tests in Australia and deciding Tests in England were timeless and weather only played a part by affecting the pitch.

The ideal balance is probably when good bowlers average about 26 (rather than the 28-29 which is the norm today) and good batsmen average 45 (rather than 48-50), so we're a little too far in favour of the batsmen at the moment. I mostly blame the pitches, which are mostly too slow, low and true to give bowlers help, which in turn reduces the range of stroke the batsmen play because the ball doesn't arrive high enough or fast enough to use the full repertoire. But the authorities won't necessarily try and move things in that direction because they fear the loss of fifth day revenues (which are usually so pitiful that I don't know why they bother).

Cheers,

Mike
 

archie mac

International Coach
Very well said Mike.
How far off are we from a standard drop in pitch?
first day:
It would favour the fast bowlers especially before lunch.
2nd day:
Would be beneficial for the batsman
3rd day
The pitch would take turn and start to break up
4th day
A real turner and variable bounce
5th day
Keeps low on occasions with a number of cracks appearing.
 

badgerhair

U19 Vice-Captain
archie mac said:
Very well said Mike.
How far off are we from a standard drop in pitch?
first day:
It would favour the fast bowlers especially before lunch.
2nd day:
Would be beneficial for the batsman
3rd day
The pitch would take turn and start to break up
4th day
A real turner and variable bounce
5th day
Keeps low on occasions with a number of cracks appearing.
Oh, spare us, please.

I don't want standard pitches which do the same things. I want there to be flat decks and minefields and good pitches and slightly up and down ones, raging turners, greentops, the lot. Let batsmen go to town, let bowlers run riot, let both be locked in strenuous combat - at different times on different days in different matches. We just need to stop doping the pitches so that all of them last forever.

Cheers,

Mike
 

telsor

U19 12th Man
Pitches should vary widely.

I do object to minefields ( test over in 2 days, might as well toss a coin to see who wins ), and 'fixed' pitches...A pitch should play the same way regardless of who the opposition is and the state of the series.

The latter is probably wishful thinking (unfortunately), although I maintain that one of the reasons for Australias dominance ( looking LONG term here ) is the diversity of pitches around the country.
 

archie mac

International Coach
badgerhair said:
Oh, spare us, please.

I don't want standard pitches which do the same things. I want there to be flat decks and minefields and good pitches and slightly up and down ones, raging turners, greentops, the lot. Let batsmen go to town, let bowlers run riot, let both be locked in strenuous combat - at different times on different days in different matches. We just need to stop doping the pitches so that all of them last forever.

Cheers,

Mike
Yes I think it would be a sad day for Test Cricket if this ever happened. I have a feeling that one day it will be a reality.
:@
 

badgerhair

U19 Vice-Captain
telsor said:
Pitches should vary widely.

I maintain that one of the reasons for Australias dominance ( looking LONG term here ) is the diversity of pitches around the country.
Well, to some extent. However, most Australians who've played county cricket regard the greater diversity of pitches we get as far more of an education, and say that English players are far better techincally-equipped than Australian players as a result. However, they would add, that education comes at the price of playing in a system which allows players to coast or not mind about failure because there's always another match in a couple of days, if not tomorrow.

Cheers,

Mike
 

Craig

World Traveller
Rich2001 said:
I've always look at it like this, Yes the batsman might have the game tailored his way in a couple of areas but remember that a batsman only has one life, a bowler has an infiante amount of chances to redeem that poor delivery (he could bowl rubbish all day long but still pick up a 5 fer), if a batsman has a poor shot the chances are he(she) is walking back to the hut.

And at the end of the day Cricket just like anything else in the world is a business to an extent, fans want to see some action and generally it's the batsman hitting big shots that gets the fans going, not dot ball after dot ball.

Iam guessing that your still a purist and love Test matches, just like the rest of us here :cool:

As for the Ad boards, I watched on TV only 2/3 seasons ago Alan Donald broke a couple of ribs when he went for a catch and ended up bent over backwars on top of the boards, looked like it hurt a fair bit to me!

England's very own Steve Harmison had a nasty run in with an Ads board as well, that resulted in him bowling 8 wides in a row agaisnt some Aussies outfit, nasty concussion I blieve.
And he would need some sort of head injury to justify some shocking bowling.

And I remember seeing Brad Young (ex Aussie spinner) go sliding into an ad board, not wise.
 

cameeel

International Captain
vic_orthdox said:
How would you say that bowling technology has improved more than batting technology??
i didnt say that bowling technology had progressed to the extent that it has in batting, i merely said it isnt all doom and gloom for prospective bowlers, they are working on improving bowling, take a look at the biomechanical studies they do all the time
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
telsor said:
Pitches should vary widely.

I do object to minefields ( test over in 2 days, might as well toss a coin to see who wins ), and 'fixed' pitches...A pitch should play the same way regardless of who the opposition is and the state of the series.

The latter is probably wishful thinking (unfortunately), although I maintain that one of the reasons for Australias dominance ( looking LONG term here ) is the diversity of pitches around the country.
Despite the fact that almost every pitch Australia have played on in the 2001\02-2005 period has been similarly flat?
Pitch-preparation is the biggest part of home advantage, and if you prepare a pitch that favours the opposition (as you do with Australia if you prepare flat pitches) you're bordering on the insane.
No ground produces the same pitch every time, and creating different types of pitches to suit the occasion at the same venue is all part of the challenge of groundsmanship.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
badgerhair said:
Oh, spare us, please.

I don't want standard pitches which do the same things. I want there to be flat decks and minefields and good pitches and slightly up and down ones, raging turners, greentops, the lot. Let batsmen go to town, let bowlers run riot, let both be locked in strenuous combat - at different times on different days in different matches. We just need to stop doping the pitches so that all of them last forever.
Exactly.
I would add that we need more of some than others - Antigua-type pitches and Mumbai-type ones should be very much in the minority, while slow seamers and slow turners of even bounce should be much more prominent.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
badgerhair said:
I mostly blame the pitches, which are mostly too slow, low and true to give bowlers help, which in turn reduces the range of stroke the batsmen play because the ball doesn't arrive high enough or fast enough to use the full repertoire. But the authorities won't necessarily try and move things in that direction because they fear the loss of fifth day revenues (which are usually so pitiful that I don't know why they bother).
Indeed. It is an unfortunate state of affairs indeed, and one that needs to be addressed promptly. I think you can forgive the cricketing authorities in certain situations for preparing slightly flatter wickets, particularly in Australia where they have proven time and time again to be highly beneficial with the Australian batsmen thriving and bowlers like McGrath and Warne certainly not struggling to take wickets on terribly flat wickets. In some other countries however it rather boggles the mind. Why say the West Indies would choose to prepare flat wickets when hosting say India or Zimbabwe is absolutely beyond me, since they have absolutely everything to gain by preparing greentops and nothing to gain by offering roads, and yet with the current state of cricket they undoubtedly would.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
An undoubted factor which all Test-playing countries have in common is the ever-increasing need to have Tests lasting 5 days, for the purposes of television.
And whoever doesn't like it, it's fact that cricket and television have to go hand-in-hand and have to keep each other satisfied.
 

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