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Thread: Natural talent vs hard work

  1. #31
    International 12th Man deeps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat
    See this rankles with me; I think it's instructive that you don't think Steve Waugh wasn't so 'naturally gifted'. It's instructive that you may not have seen play him pre-1994.
    couldn't have put that post better myself. i knew someone would say steve waugh as well

    most talented is afridi

    tendulkar and lara are very talented, but afridi is more imo.

    dont know about the hardest worker

  2. #32
    Cricketer Of The Year Kweek's Avatar
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    yeah Talented..but motivational wise and even workingwise...Afridi is bad. Tendulkar is king of both and Lara been showing work more then he used to.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwek
    yeah Talented..but motivational wise and even workingwise...Afridi is bad. Tendulkar is king of both and Lara been showing work more then he used to.

    Just because Afridi is a good atacking player and can hit the ball so wel doesnt make him more talented than say Tendulkar or Lara. Those two have so much more talent in my opinion

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    presuming the definition of hardest worker is someone whos not naturally gifted and therefore had to work more for his runs than someone who is, then hes certainly not.
    but then again, you'd have to be presuming he can play every shot in the book due to natural talent and not because he worked hard in the first place...
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Redman
    A former coach of mine who was in the NZ academy says that all batsmen completely p*** themselves when facing an Akhtar or a Lee. He said that he thought only 2 batsmen in the world were different - Tendulkar and Lara.
    yeah, I'm pretty sure that'd be the case too...I guess guys like Ponting etc that are willing to play pull shots against that sort of pace are more backing their ability to pick a certain ball than coping with the situation as a whole. As with everything, a very good ball bowled at that sort of speed is going to be pretty much unplayable no matter who you are.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat
    See this rankles with me; I think it's instructive that you don't think Steve Waugh wasn't so 'naturally gifted'. It's instructive that you may not have seen play him pre-1994. See before that point, he was looked upon as a potentially great allrounder with oodles of natural talent; he was a natural hitter of the ball with all the shots who could adapt his game to play the gaps if needed, he was a talented medium-pacer who could move the ball both ways off the seam and in the air and as a fielder, was fantastic on the ground and with the ball in the air.

    Post-94 and Steve Waugh had gotten himself into trouble playing too aggressively and was beginning to build-up a few injuries from the amount of bowling he was doing. So he decided to restrict his natural game to leg-side flicks and to nailing the beejeezus out of anything the bowlers dared to pitch short outside off-stump, showing the maker's name to anything else. My point is that Steve Waugh's restrictions were a conscious decision and self-imposed, independent of natural talent, really. This gave rise to the perception he was a 'hard worker' which was true but in reality, Steve Waugh was a highly talented stroke player too. He just deliberately decided to cut out shots which had a higher probability of getting him out, putting the team's results ahead of his own ego. That took a lot of guts and certainly wouldn't be something I would be humble enough to do. I personally think he went a bit far but gee, it's difficult to argue with the results. Imagine how important a player such as Shahid Afridi would be if he did the same.

    Even at the very end of his career, he could show the natural talent he still possessed despite retiring. I have him on video making 88 off 56 for NSW in the ING Cup final right after he retired and in it was every shot one could want; expansive lofted drives over mid-on, a couple of hooks and pulls (!), big drives off the front and back foot through the arc between point and mid-off, etc.

    I think the perception of Steve Waugh as 'only' a hard worker is borne out of the restrictions he placed on himself AND the rise of brother Mark at around the same time (who may have been a little more naturally gifted but made it look like the gulf was a lot wider).
    Yeah, I agree. Waugh played the hook and pull shots freely when he first came on the scene, but cut them out as they were high risk early in his career. It would have been interesting to see if he adopted the same approach if he came into the Australian team now.

    I also wonder if changing from an approach where you naturally went after the short ball to one where you left it was the reason behind him playing it so awkwardly sometimes as the adjustment meant you had less time to deal with it than someone who is a natural leaver of the short ball.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    oh commone, how in the world someone can mention chris gayle as being talented and then not mention sachin tendulkar who is arguably the most talented player ever is beyond me.
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  8. #38
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    Most naturally talented - Sehwag. Haven't seen anyone with such brilliant superhuman hand-eye coordination. And hand-eye coordination is totally a god-gifted virtue.
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  9. #39
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    Natural talent - far too uptight word - the ability to work hard IS a natural talent, otherwise everyone would be equal. Some people have the stamina to go at something over and over and over again - some people don't.
    Hardest-working international cricketer with success? Who knows. All sorts of candidates who have little or nothing to separate them: Dwayne Bravo, Gary Kirsten, Nasser Hussain (not to say FOR A SECOND that he didn't have an abundance of what people so often call "natural ability" and anyone who saw him bat in the mid-90s could not possibly think otherwise), Jacques Kallis, Graham Gooch, just a few names that happened to spring into my mind in these last couple of minutes.
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  10. #40
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    Lara...... I haven't seen anyone not pick up a bat for like 6 months and then come in and score 116 in a big WC match against the host side with a decent bowling attack....
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  11. #41
    Cricketer Of The Year James90's Avatar
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    Naturally talent: Vaughan, Afridi, Enamul Haque Jnr
    Hard work: Langer, Thorpe, Inzamam
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  12. #42
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    most naturally talented is lara for me.....

    and plus many ppl said VINOD KAMBLI was a lot more talented than Sachin. Just see where he is now, talent is not everything.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendall
    You think Afridi is more gifted than Lara, Tendulkar and the rest.
    So do I.

    Plus several others concur.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliG
    So do I.

    Plus several others concur.
    So why do you think he hasnt played more often for Pakistan ?

  15. #45
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    because he isn't consistent. dont be silly asking such moronic questions. stick to the point. he is definately a natural talent. lara and everyone else up top got there because they work hard.

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