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Thread: Natural talent vs hard work

  1. #16
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Redman
    International cricketers who say that cricket is 99% hard work don't know what they are talking about, since they are the ones with all the natural talent. Yes, Mark Richardson had to work extremely hard to become a good batsman but he does have natural talent. He has naturally got massive powers of concentration and a good work ethic - these are natural talents.You cannot face 150 km/h bowling and not have natural talent - the reaction speed necessary to do that is far too high for someone who does not naturally have fast reactions.
    Maybe what they're saying though is that there's a lot of people about with talent, but it takes a lot of hard work to get to the top. There's not a person in the world born capable of handling 150km/h deliveries from the outset I'd imagine, it'd be something you'd become accustomed to handling through hard work and discipline.

    I'm basically trying to say it's a combination of both...in a long-winded way. A bit of natural talent helps, but it'll only get you so far without hard work. (Mark Phillipoussis is a prime example of this in the tennis arena)
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  2. #17
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    oh commone, how in the world someone can mention chris gayle as being talented and then not mention sachin tendulkar who is arguably the most talented player ever is beyond me.
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  3. #18
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedKing
    Most talented, current between Gayle and Afridi, All time, the obvious 1 "the Don"

    Hardest worker-i said Hussain, but ATM, between Thorpe or Kallis.
    err kallis? the hardest worker?
    despite the fact that he has one of the best techniques around and is capable of playing every shot in the book?

  4. #19
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    err kallis? the hardest worker?
    despite the fact that he has one of the best techniques around and is capable of playing every shot in the book?
    that doesn't mean he's not the hardest worker though...


  5. #20
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco
    that doesn't mean he's not the hardest worker though...
    presuming the definition of hardest worker is someone whos not naturally gifted and therefore had to work more for his runs than someone who is, then hes certainly not.

  6. #21
    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    Afridi isn't THAT talented. He just slogs... I'm sure if Tendulkar or Lara went out with the same mindset as Afridi, they would score at the same rate he does but with far more consistency...

  7. #22
    State Vice-Captain Sir Redman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco
    I'm basically trying to say it's a combination of both...in a long-winded way. A bit of natural talent helps, but it'll only get you so far without hard work. (Mark Phillipoussis is a prime example of this in the tennis arena)
    Yeah you're right, it is a combination of both. Natural talent can be wasted without hard work and hard work will not necessarily help if you have no talent

  8. #23
    State Vice-Captain Sir Redman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco
    There's not a person in the world born capable of handling 150km/h deliveries from the outset I'd imagine, it'd be something you'd become accustomed to handling through hard work and discipline.
    A former coach of mine who was in the NZ academy says that all batsmen completely p*** themselves when facing an Akhtar or a Lee. He said that he thought only 2 batsmen in the world were different - Tendulkar and Lara.

  9. #24
    International Debutant dinu23's Avatar
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    most talented player to play for SL as far as I know is Aravinda De Silva. Hardest worker has to be Hashan Thilekerathne. from the whole world most talented is Sachin, hardest worker Dion Ebrahim.
    Code:
    CW CRICKET - May 2009
    FC
    M      I     NO    Runs      Avg      Ct      50s      100s      HS
    83    157   8      4237    28.44      79      22         4       169*
    
    O     W    Avg   SR
    45    18   18.7  27
    
    List - A
    M      I      Runs      Avg      Ct    50s    100s      HS
    179   174    5828      37.84     67    48     3        121
    
    OD
    M      I      Runs      Avg    Ct      50s      100s      HS    SR
    27    24     716      35.80    15      6         0       71*   74.58

  10. #25
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    Murali,Warne and MacGill must be incredibly talented to be able to turn the ball so much.
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  11. #26
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    Hardest worker in my opinion was Steve Waugh... Not hugely gifted but his mental side is what made him so good.
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  12. #27
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    Hardest worker in my opinion was Steve Waugh... Not hugely gifted but his mental side is what made him so good.
    See this rankles with me; I think it's instructive that you don't think Steve Waugh wasn't so 'naturally gifted'. It's instructive that you may not have seen play him pre-1994. See before that point, he was looked upon as a potentially great allrounder with oodles of natural talent; he was a natural hitter of the ball with all the shots who could adapt his game to play the gaps if needed, he was a talented medium-pacer who could move the ball both ways off the seam and in the air and as a fielder, was fantastic on the ground and with the ball in the air.

    Post-94 and Steve Waugh had gotten himself into trouble playing too aggressively and was beginning to build-up a few injuries from the amount of bowling he was doing. So he decided to restrict his natural game to leg-side flicks and to nailing the beejeezus out of anything the bowlers dared to pitch short outside off-stump, showing the maker's name to anything else. My point is that Steve Waugh's restrictions were a conscious decision and self-imposed, independent of natural talent, really. This gave rise to the perception he was a 'hard worker' which was true but in reality, Steve Waugh was a highly talented stroke player too. He just deliberately decided to cut out shots which had a higher probability of getting him out, putting the team's results ahead of his own ego. That took a lot of guts and certainly wouldn't be something I would be humble enough to do. I personally think he went a bit far but gee, it's difficult to argue with the results. Imagine how important a player such as Shahid Afridi would be if he did the same.

    Even at the very end of his career, he could show the natural talent he still possessed despite retiring. I have him on video making 88 off 56 for NSW in the ING Cup final right after he retired and in it was every shot one could want; expansive lofted drives over mid-on, a couple of hooks and pulls (!), big drives off the front and back foot through the arc between point and mid-off, etc.

    I think the perception of Steve Waugh as 'only' a hard worker is borne out of the restrictions he placed on himself AND the rise of brother Mark at around the same time (who may have been a little more naturally gifted but made it look like the gulf was a lot wider).

  13. #28
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    I guess it's a tough call to make. I mean, one could argue that, say, Mark Butcher looks far more talented than Mark Richardson. It's a subjective call, but when in full-flow Butch is very easy on the eye with the full repertoire of shots; Richardson, frankly, wasn't.

    Yet Richardson averaged about 10 more than Butcher. Butch's average of a shade under 35 is a poor return for such a technically correct player, seemingly partly due to his schoolboy lapses when well set. Richardson, despite occasionally looking nigh on shotless, was far less prone to give his wicket away. However, couldn't one argue that the ability to concentrate for long periods of time is just as inherent (or natural!) as a batter's hand-eye co-ordination; perhaps Richardson was more naturally blessed than poor old Butch.

    Another case that kinda bugs me is Hick. Obviously fabulous natural gifts & anyone who has ever seen him with his shirt off would have to say he works incredibly hard at his fitness too. Yet he averaged 31 & small change in tests.... Has to be mental, no?
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  14. #29
    State Vice-Captain Link's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Redman
    Yes I know players like Gilchrist are rediculously gifted. I just think that some players - Richardson for example - are extremely gifted with their ability to concentrate and work hard. Some people just do not have the natural ability to concentrate for long periods of time, whereas Richardson can do that naturally.
    you think that Gilchrist or Lara or someone like that can go out and score a hundred and play like they do without concentrating?
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  15. #30
    State Vice-Captain Sir Redman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Link
    you think that Gilchrist or Lara or someone like that can go out and score a hundred and play like they do without concentrating?
    I didn't say that - of course they concentrate.

    It's just that some other players who don't have such gifted strokeplay seem to have far higher abilities to concentrate than most.

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