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Thread: match throwing okay in particular scenario?

  1. #1
    Banned Pratters's Avatar
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    match throwing okay in particular scenario?

    http://content.cricinfo.com/pakistan...ry/208310.html

    Shoaib Malik threw a match when he wanted another team to qualify.

    When Australia were playing a particula match in the World Cup in 1999, they slowed down their run rate as it increased their chance of qualifying into the next round.

    Now suppose a scenario exists like there are three teams, India, Australia and Kenya in a tri nation tournament. If Australia lose to Kenya in a particular match, it ensures that they face Kenya in the finals rather than India after a few rounds of round robi matches.

    Now would it be okay for Australia to lose to Kenya to decide whom they face in the finals as they are in a POSITION to chose their opponents?

    I would say yes and its not the teams but the tournament rules to blame if/when such a scneario comes up. In such a scenario the throwing of a particular match does seem the right thing to do.

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    U19 Vice-Captain Behlol's Avatar
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    well i think that shoaib malik did the wrong thing.he was the captain of Sialkot Stallions and his team had a chance of qualifying into the next round.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    'throwing a match' usually means that a team is paid off to lose/play worse. the game involving malik doesnt really fit into this, as he was apparently making a protest, while in the world cup it was the teams decision, and youre right in saying that the tournament is to blame. its strange, however, cause captains have always been doing things like this (the two examples you gave, there was an english county match where the captain declared after one over, and the match where the captain instructed a player to bowl badly [70-odd runs of the over]), and in some cases they are disciplined and in some cases theyre not. so who knows?

    personally, i think its alright as long as another person/group isnt paying that team to play worse.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behlol
    well i think that shoaib malik did the wrong thing.he was the captain of Sialkot Stallions and his team had a chance of qualifying into the next round.
    they still did, didnt they?


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    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc
    they still did, didnt they?
    no I dont think they did.

    He was doing this as a protest, not because he wanted an easier team to go through.

    In my opinion, the guy should be banned for a long time if he did decide to throw the match, for whatever reasons
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    U19 Vice-Captain Behlol's Avatar
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    the competition was between Sialkot Stallions(malik`s team)Lahore Eagles and i dont know the 3rd team.the points were equal.but i dont think the match was thrown away.the PCB decided that Lahore eagles should go on.

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    Cricketer Of The Year Adamc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc
    (the two examples you gave, there was an english county match where the captain declared after one over, and the match where the captain instructed a player to bowl badly [70-odd runs of the over])
    That is a completely different situation altogether. Generally that situation arises when much of a match has been rained out, so the captains agree to set a declaration target to bring about the possibility of a result. The bowlers (usually players who would never normally bowl) then give away runs until the declaration target is met. There are a few examples of centuries being scored in 20-odd minutes because of this, but Wisden does not recognise these as records.

    Often double declarations (with the score on 0/0) are used as well; there is one instance of this occurring in Tests - England v South Africa four or five years ago, which England ended up winning, batting in the fourth innings. It attracted some controversy at the time, but is probably even more suspect now, given that the RSA captain in that game was one Hansie Cronje.

    Edit: Here's the link to that Test match. Very suspect indeed, given that RSA declared twice (actually declared once and forfeited the second innings) and it allowed England to win the series 2-1. Not many captains would be willing to take that risk, especially in a home series.
    Last edited by Adamc; 29-04-2005 at 09:30 AM.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamc
    That is a completely different situation altogether. Generally that situation arises when much of a match has been rained out, so the captains agree to set a declaration target to bring about the possibility of a result. The bowlers (usually players who would never normally bowl) then give away runs until the declaration target is met. There are a few examples of centuries being scored in 20-odd minutes because of this, but Wisden does not recognise these as records.

    Often double declarations (with the score on 0/0) are used as well; there is one instance of this occurring in Tests - England v South Africa four or five years ago, which England ended up winning, batting in the fourth innings. It attracted some controversy at the time, but is probably even more suspect now, given that the RSA captain in that game was one Hansie Cronje.

    Edit: Here's the link to that Test match. Very suspect indeed, given that RSA declared twice (actually declared once and forfeited the second innings) and it allowed England to win the series 2-1. Not many captains would be willing to take that risk, especially in a home series.
    you're right, but the cases i was referring to (my mistake for being unclear and too lazy to get up and find them) were different.http://content.cricinfo.com/ci/conte...ry/146056.html i forget where i saw the other article

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    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    One just needs to remember NZ "deliberately playing to lose" to give SA the bonus point, so that they can meet them again in the VB finals in 2002, keeping the Australians out. How that backfired on the Kiwis!
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    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun
    One just needs to remember NZ "deliberately playing to lose" to give SA the bonus point, so that they can meet them again in the VB finals in 2002, keeping the Australians out. How that backfired on the Kiwis!
    Yes, it backfired to such an extent whereby they made the final rather than not making it. Disaster.
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    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Just to clear up the situation, Shoaib Malik allowed his side to lose to make a protest against an umpiring decision with regard to slow over rates in an earlier match. He was evidently unaware that his side would have qualified had they won, and thought he was giving a way a match with essentially no meaning, but in the process ensuring that the Lahore Eagles, the team which had benefitted from the earlier over rates decision, would not qualify for the final.
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    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    Just to clear up the situation, Shoaib Malik allowed his side to lose to make a protest against an umpiring decision with regard to slow over rates in an earlier match. He was evidently unaware that his side would have qualified had they won, and thought he was giving a way a match with essentially no meaning, but in the process ensuring that the Lahore Eagles, the team which had benefitted from the earlier over rates decision, would not qualify for the final.
    he should be banned for sheer stupidity then

  13. #13
    International Debutant SpaceMonkey's Avatar
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    So he didnt think of his teams win bonus, or the fans who wanted his team to win so badly.
    That alone means he should be banned and fined ALOT. Theres no place for childish immature behaviour like this in cricket.

  14. #14
    Banned Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    he should be banned for sheer stupidity then
    He should be banned because he purposefully went for the detrimental of his team. Intentional or non intentional is inconsequential.

  15. #15
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    The rules are clear for all to see, Shoaib Malik did not break those rules; people have deliberately lost matches or reduced margins of victory before and will do so again.
    There can be no justification for any action against him.
    WRT the Centurion Test of 1999\2000, it is known for certain that Cronje's will to contrive a result was motivated by financial gain - Marlon Aronstram, a gambler, paid him and gave him a leather-jacket to turn what seemed to be nothing possible but a draw into a victory. Cronje's targets that day were South African win first, England win second, draw worst-case scenario.
    Given that SA had already won the series there was little to lose from that POV.
    Match-throwing is never acceptible - deliberately contriving a match for your team's own gain is perfectly acceptible because there's no legitimate way to outlaw it.
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