Black Caps generic thread

[Arjun]

They can stick to one opening pair for Tests and ODI's, or at least one opener in both teams. What's your opinion of Cumming and Marshall in Tests, and Marshall and Astle in ODI's?

 

[Smudge]

Dion Nash joins Bracewell, Hadlee and Turner on the selection panel.

Could be interesting...

 

[Tim]

very interesting....

Im actually not sure what to make of it!.

 

[Tim]

All I know is that there are 3 or 4 very strong personalities on that panel now.

 

[lord_of_darkness]

im kinda getting sick of hadlee now..

 

[Arjun]

Comments on this ODI squad?

• James Marshall
• Astle
• Hamish Marshall
• Fleming
• Fulton
• Styris
• Cairns
• Oram
• McCullum
• Vettori
• Bond

With Tuffey, Cumming, Sherlock and a spinner as reserves.

 

[Macka]

Scott Styris, king of the drive in the V, has decided to play for Auckland.

I think Fleming should continue to open with Astle in ODIs, and I'm still not convinced about James Marshall, either. NZ still needs to look at developing top-order batsmen. However, the recent contracted players' selection might suggest otherwise, with top-order players like Fulton and Taylor missing out altogether.

From my point of view, we still require another top-order batsman to go with Fleming, Astle, Hamish Marshall, and Scott Styris. Styris isn't in great form and is looking to get his spot back after injury. But who is there really to challenge him? Oram and McCullum might be in with a chance of moving up the order.

 

[Tim]

Auckland should be bringing in their own youth players rather than signing Martin & Styris. The report at www.blackcaps.co.nz says that Daryl Tuffey could also be heading to Auckland.

 

[Arjun]

Scott Styris, king of the drive in the V, has decided to play for Auckland.

I think Fleming should continue to open with Astle in ODIs, and I'm still not convinced about James Marshall, either. NZ still needs to look at developing top-order batsmen. However, the recent contracted players' selection might suggest otherwise, with top-order players like Fulton and Taylor missing out altogether.

From my point of view, we still require another top-order batsman to go with Fleming, Astle, Hamish Marshall, and Scott Styris. Styris isn't in great form and is looking to get his spot back after injury. But who is there really to challenge him? Oram and McCullum might be in with a chance of moving up the order.

The only way they can develop top-order batsmen is by giving those in-form batsmen a longer run in both Tests and ODI's. Far too often, we have seen chopping and changing at the top, with the likes of Matthew Bell, Lou Vincent, Craig Spearman picked and dropped quickly. They've even got Matthew Horne back at the top several times and it didn't help much. If they stick to just three or four options, they'll get better results at the top. At this stage, the best optiosn would be Papps (if fit), Cumming (he's got a longer run), Richard Jones (subcontinent scout) and James Marshall, who has had a lot of FC experience at the top of the order. Fleming and Astle are not openers, and they haven't done well consistently, so a Test prospect should open in ODIs.

 

[Macka]

The only way they can develop top-order batsmen is by giving those in-form batsmen a longer run in both Tests and ODI's. Far too often, we have seen chopping and changing at the top, with the likes of Matthew Bell, Lou Vincent, Craig Spearman picked and dropped quickly. They've even got Matthew Horne back at the top several times and it didn't help much. If they stick to just three or four options, they'll get better results at the top. At this stage, the best optiosn would be Papps (if fit), Cumming (he's got a longer run), Richard Jones (subcontinent scout) and James Marshall, who has had a lot of FC experience at the top of the order. Fleming and Astle are not openers, and they haven't done well consistently, so a Test prospect should open in ODIs.

I disagree. The Test and ODI order should be independent of each other. Fleming and Astle are the only stable part of our ODI line-up.

 

[marc71178]

Hamish Marshall?

 

[AndrewM]

Fleming, Astle, Hamish Marshall, Cairns, McCullum and Vettori are the only stabile one-day players. And i agree, both test and one-day teams should be totally independent of each other. Different skills, different players required.

In the one-day side the only contentious issue for my mind is the no. 3 spot. I would put Hamish Marshall back there, as there is too many middle order places to have him at 5. Oram and Cairns both have to play if they are fit.

That way you have Bond and Tuffey opening up, with Cairns and Oram to provide the first and second change. Then you have Vettori, Styris and Astle to provide variation. McMillan has had so many chances its not funny. He has been performing recently so you must stick with him.

The ideal one-day side for my money would be:
1 Fleming
2 Astle
3 H Marshall
4 Styris
5 McMillan
6 Cairns
7 Oram
8 McCullum
9 Vettori
10 Tuffey
11 Bond

Tests
1 Cumming
2 J Marshall
3 Fleming
4 H Marshall
5 Styris
6 Vincent
7 Oram
8 McCullum
9 Vettori
10 Franklin/ Martin
11 Bond

Agreement/ disagreement?

 

[Blaze]

im kinda getting sick of hadlee now..

I think he has to be involved somehow. He is too good to waste.

Martin Crowe should have got a look in IMO

 

[_Ed_]

The ideal one-day side for my money would be:
1 Fleming
2 Astle
3 H Marshall
4 Styris
5 McMillan
6 Cairns
7 Oram
8 McCullum
9 Vettori
10 Tuffey
11 Bond

Tests
1 Cumming
2 J Marshall
3 Fleming
4 H Marshall
5 Styris
6 Vincent
7 Oram
8 McCullum
9 Vettori
10 Franklin/ Martin
11 Bond

Agreement/ disagreement?

I pretty much agree with those, but I have to say that although McMillan has performed recently I'd rather have James Marshall. I think running between the wickets has been important to us and was really the winning of the game on one occasion (H.Marshall and McCullum at Telstra Dome) and James is as fast as Hamish and with their communication together they could score at around 5 an over in partnerships together in the middle stages which is a skill I really value in ODIs.

 

[AndrewM]

I think he has to be involved somehow. He is too good to waste.

Martin Crowe should have got a look in IMO

Agree. Our best batsman of all time, disregarding any personality clash, should be included. He is outspoken but has some very good thoughts. Hadlee IS too good to waste as well. Even if it is in the background, he is one of the game's great thinkers.

 

[AndrewM]

I pretty much agree with those, but I have to say that although McMillan has performed recently I'd rather have James Marshall. I think running between the wickets has been important to us and was really the winning of the game on one occasion (H.Marshall and McCullum at Telstra Dome) and James is as fast as Hamish and with their communication together they could score at around 5 an over in partnerships together in the middle stages which is a skill I really value in ODIs.

That was my only qualm as well mate. James and Hamish could potentially be form amazing partnerships with the running and communication as you indicated. It was well highlighted in their brief appearance in that one-day match at home against the Aussies recently. In that case James should go at 3, having Styris to separate them at 4 and Hamish at 5. But i think McMillan's experience would see him picked ahead of James if they named a side tomorrow. But it will ultimately come down to McMillan's consistency in the next year. If he performs, he gets to stay. If not, then its the birth of the Hamish and James show.

I personally think McMillan will have to show to the selectors that he has matured into a batsman that can build an innings on a regular basis, not have a cameo of 20 off 27 balls.

 

[Blaze]

Let's face it, if we are to succeed in the next five years or so we need Bond to be fit and to be on fire (Especially in tests) or if he gets injured again we need the young quicks Sherlock and Davis to come through.

 

[AndrewM]

Bond is so crucial to our success i agree. He has only just turned 30, so there's 5 good years left for him, providing (touch wood) he stays fit and healthy. And he has worked so damn hard to get to his current level of fitness, screws in back and all, that he deserves to lead us to some glory years. If not then we have to look at Butler as our immediate next hope to step up and have faith in his ability and potential. Forget the fact that he wasn't contracted, he will play for sure in the next season.

Davis and Sherlock are 3-5 years away, they need time in the domestic arena.

 

[shaka]

I see that Styris is going to be playing in Auckland, and rumours are also available that Tuffey may be switching to Auckland as well as he stays in Auckland. Both would be huge losses to ND.

 

[ND_fan]

I see that Styris is going to be playing in Auckland, and rumours are also available that Tuffey may be switching to Auckland as well as he stays in Auckland. Both would be huge losses to ND.

Styris is over the hill - Auckland can have him.
Yes I am a little sour...