Black Caps generic thread

[Zinzan]

I'd be happy to see this squad tour SA:

1) Fleming
2) How
3) Marshall
4) Fulton
5) Astle
6) Vincent
7) Oram
8) McCullum
9) Vettori
10) Franklin
11) Bond

12) Martin
13) Sinclair
14) Styris
15) Adams

Overall I like your squad....but would still start Styris ahead Fulton,but like the idea of Fulton touring. I also prefer your option of trying Jamie How over Cummings who seems to have to many technical problems for mine.

Hmmm.... a real toss up between experienced but underperformed Sinclair and new boy James Marshall. I'd probably give Marshall the nod....if nothing else having both Marshall brothers confuses the hell out of the opposition

Your starting XI would be good if we were say 1-0 up and trying to draw a match, but to bowl the opposition out I prefer the option of Oram at 6 and having the extra bowling resourse - either Martin or Franklin - depending on the wicket

 

[Ming]

It's a bit harshing dropping Cumming. He deserves another go, and showed promise. Jamie How won't tour SA, it's almost confirmed, with Bracewell, CD coach and How himself even saying he isn't ready for the international stage yet.

 

[marc71178]

Your starting XI would be good if we were say 1-0 up and trying to draw a match, but to bowl the opposition out I prefer the option of Oram at 6 and having the extra bowling resourse - either Martin or Franklin - depending on the wicket

Isn't Bond, Franklin, Oram, Vettori and Astle enough firepower?

 

[Darrin]

Its really pretty simple as i see it...there is simply no-room for styris with vincent perfoming so well, I would not drop astle. I'm also a big fan of Peter Fulton but can't see him making his way in-which is a shame. so the lineup look somethimg like this:

fulton
j.marshall
h.marshall
fleming
astle
vincent
oram
mccullum
vettori
bond
martin

In the squad is styris, franklin, and wiseman.

I see people are still picking fleming as an opener...he is not an opener with h.marshall performing so well at 3, he comes in at 4. I believe there is enough bowling options there as astle provides good cover.

It continues to baffle me why they are not picking fulton. they keep coming up with wierd excuses.

 

[Zinzan]

Isn't Bond, Franklin, Oram, Vettori and Astle enough firepower?

One could argue it is enough....however given Oram's good enough to bat at 6 and Mccullum and vettori to follow at 7 and 8 ....why not have the extra bowling option ...especially if Franklin plays and bats at 8 or 9 ...its still a long batting lineup

 

[sportychic33]

quick question. .. why are so many of you guys set on having peter fulton in the team before styris. i would rather have styris play the first few games and see how he goes before bringing in fulton as styris has previously been a vital cog in the black caps side, with his batting and bowling.

 

[Zinzan]

quick question. .. why are so many of you guys set on having peter fulton in the team before styris. i would rather have styris play the first few games and see how he goes before bringing in fulton as styris has previously been a vital cog in the black caps side, with his batting and bowling.

You won't see me disagreeing with u on that ...Apart from his batting Styris's bowling is more than handy

 

[sportychic33]

my touring team for SA

1.J Marshall
2.C Cumming
3.H Marshall
4.S Fleming
5.S Styris
6.N Astle
7.J Oram
8.B McCullum
9.D Vettori
10.S Bond
11.C Martin

12. L. Vincent
13. J. Franklin
14. D. Tuffey
15. P. Fulton

Tuffey's selection is dependent on form/fitness and mental state . I'd have Mathew Sinclair on stand by in case of any damn injuries, i would also have Kyle Mills and Iain O'Brien on stand by.

 

[sportychic33]

If we need to play one more pace bowler, I would move Oram up to 6 and drop Styris or Astle depending on form.

 

[Sir Redman]

The more I think about this the more I'm starting to like the idea of McCullum opening. I'm starting to change my mind on Cumming as well - before I thought we should definately keep him, now I'm not so sure. It seems to me as though everyone is assuming Bond is going to rip straight back in to international cricket and blast opposition batsmen out but given the length of time he's been off that's not guaranteed at all. That's why I'm starting to think we have to play both Martin and Franklin - otherwise we're too reliant on Bond and Vettori to take all the wickets, as Oram, Styris and Astle are not really wicket taking bowlers.
That said, maybe:

J Marshall
McCullum
H Marshall
Fleming
Astle
Vincent
Styris
Vettori
Franklin
Bond
Martin

would be our best bet to win.

There's still plenty of depth in the batting with Styris at 7, and it also gives us the extra bowling option. Otherwise it's a toss up between which of Martin and Franklin are going to have a good day.

EDIT: Ahh I forgot Oram. Scrap that team then. That would mean Martin and Franklin gunning for the same spot.

 

[Arjun]

• James Marshall, according to CricInfo, used to open quite often, and given his form at the top of the order, he may be given an extended run. Cumming hasn't done much of note, but still worth an extension- this chopping and changing of openers and promotion of misfits at the top has to stop.
• The team can try out Peter Fulton, given his recent form and his impressive domestic record. Maybe some have their apprehensions- back-foot issues, for instance.
• Then there is the question of the fifth bowler- they have to stick to the same bowler to bowl just as many overs (14 or 15) in every match.
• About Jacob Oram, he should be played as a striker at number 6 and as a first-change seamer. With Oram as a bowler, there has to be a fifth.
• With Styris and Oram not likely to return soon, they must get more runs out of Franklin and Vettori.
• They can pick a genuine wicketkeeper, since they need to support their bowlers a lot more. Hopkins seems a good choice.
• Once those young tearaway pacers return to full fitness, they can pick one of them for the next Test/ODI series, and they can't lose too much, given how weak their medium-pace attack is. Bond must return sooner than later- it's of no use having him left out for so long, when his career may end in the near future, and he's far better than any other bowler in this attack.

 

[vic_orthdox]

They can pick a genuine wicketkeeper, since they need to support their bowlers a lot more. Hopkins seems a good choice.

because McCullum's been so poor...

 

[_Ed_]

Fleming starts his season for Nottinghamshire with a bang, out for a magnificent 4 ball duck. Good stuff.

 

[anzac]

Anzac I don't get what you mean about oram. Why can't he bat at 7 and still bowl lots of overs.
I think he is a very good batsman (capable of batting as high as 5 imo) who can bowl well too but it a much better bowler when other bowlers are taking wickets because he hit very hard to hit.

my selections are based upon:
* a 6-4 split;
* Oram selected as a batsman in the top 6 - and only bowled as a 4th seam option;
*depending on how the top order shapes up I'd consider using him at #5 or #7..........but as an aggressive batsman to accelerate the run rate in either position..........

whilst I agree that he can be difficult to get away & is very good at slowing the run rate - IMO he has been doing too much bowling as either a batsman OR as an allrounder.........we have been using a 5-5 split with him as an allrounder, yet he has been used to open the bowling & bowls more overs than anyone apart from Vettori.............too much pressure then placed upon both his skills IMO & if we are to continue to use him with the ball then select him as a bowler..............but again within a 6-4 split...........

 

[anzac]

It's a bit harshing dropping Cumming. He deserves another go, and showed promise. Jamie How won't tour SA, it's almost confirmed, with Bracewell, CD coach and How himself even saying he isn't ready for the international stage yet.

here's a thought - why do we have to debut How as an opener??????
despite the current practice where the selectors will play just about EVERY 'newbie' as an opener, I actually think we should follow the AUS example & debut them lower in the order regardless of their pedigree.............less pressure on debut & in How's case a chance to bat with some senior players to 'assist' him in his shot selections.............

 

[anzac]

Mccullum should either open or bat at 8, while he is talented enough to bat higher he has been too insonsistant at important times.

IMO opening is too much to ask until he gets his game sorted, and would probably end in the demise of his 'keeping...........

I also think he's been trying too hard to go head to head with Gilchrist & Sangakarra in having an impact with the bat................

but I'm more at ease with him as #3 - depending on the makeup of the openers................

 

[anzac]

You won't see me disagreeing with u on that ...Apart from his batting Styris's bowling is more than handy

I'd actually like to see Styris concentrate on developing his off spin as his primary bowling - Bracewell supposedly thinks he has what it takes and this is one area that I'd actually take his word for it
and he can then perform the same sort of role as Symonds - seam up or spin depending on circumstances.................and gives him a different bowling option to Astle so far as potential team selection goes.............

 

[anzac]

It seems to me as though everyone is assuming Bond is going to rip straight back in to international cricket and blast opposition batsmen out but given the length of time he's been off that's not guaranteed at all. That's why I'm starting to think we have to play both Martin and Franklin - otherwise we're too reliant on Bond and Vettori to take all the wickets, as Oram, Styris and Astle are not really wicket taking bowlers.

I agree that there is no guarantees regarding Bond's abilities should he return, however I'm confident that even if he were only 3/4 of his former glory than that is a better option than Mills & Co, or even Tuffey in his current state - hence my inclusion of both Martin & Franklin ................both as potential wicket taking bowlers, & even if fit Tuffey goes into the mix to compete for a spot, as both Martin & Franklin have better stats as 'strike' bowlers................IMO with all things being equal, a fit Tuffey provides the same semi containment option as Oram with the ball...........

more importantly I see Bond as the 'leader' of the seam attack - something that has been lacking in recent times.............

 

[anzac]

I'm still bummed out that Sinclair got the chop from both teams b4 Macca.................and I certainly have him in my squad ahead of Macca.............

again it would depend on the makeup of the openers...........

 

[anzac]

so generally it would appear that most agree upon a 6-4 split atm..............

so where is Oram - batsman or bowler?????

the presumption is that Bond is fit, functional (even if he is only as effective as Martin & Co...) and available........

in these circumstances Oram plays as a batsman for me, and either Astle or Styris miss the starting lineup................Styris would get my vote if he can get his spin bowling up & going.............

the 4 specialist bowlers for me would be Bond, Martin, Franklin & Vettori - with Oram & Astle / Styris providing support..........