Black Caps generic thread - Page 2

Blaze · 19-04-2005, 06:54 PM

J Marshall
C Cumming
H Marshall
S Fleming
L Vincent
N Astle
B McCullum
J Frankiln
P Wiseman
K Mills
C Martin

This was our most recent test team.. as i see it the three players who are certianties to come back in are Oram, Vettori and Bond.. They would replace Wiseman, Mills and either Martin or Frankiln..

IMO Styris has to work his way back in to the team and wait for his opportunity and take it. It is a very healthy situation for NZ to be in.

Macka · 19-04-2005, 09:02 PM

It's a pretty difficult choice. I think, at this stage, Oram is a batsman who bowls decently in Tests and a bowler who bats a bit in ODIs. Personally, I think the batting line-up all comes down to whether Fleming has enough mental ability to move back to opening. He has all the experience in the world; technically, he is better than he showed against Australia; and his team requires him to open the innings from my point of view. He has said he wanted to open the innings - pre Austraian mind you - if his team needed him to. Well, it's time for him to actually show some backbone and do it. No more talk. Don't make a big deal about it.

Cumming seems to be a poor man's Richardson and I'm not convinced about James Marshall either. They will probably be given another few chances, but I'm far from convinced. I mentioned Hamish Marshall opening in the other thread, but I'm not so sure now. I think it's important for him to be told where he is batting for an entire series being new to the side. I believe he doesn't even have a net before he plays now, so mental preparation for him is extremely important.

As for McCullum moving up the order: he probably has more talent in his little finger than most of the other batsman in the team; he's yet to show it, however. Still, we have the same problem from the Astle/McMillan era with Astle/Styris. Both aren't good starters - which could see a decent start ruined. As anzac mentioned, I think we need another batsman who can anchor the lower-order, batting between Astle and Styris. But then that would force one of them to play, mainly as a batsman, at 7 in my line-up. I think Vincent is much more circumspect at the begining of an innings than either Astle or Styris. He seems to have a good temperment as well. Oram would be another possiblity.

I'm not convinced that having Mills or O'Brien in the team would mean we would take 20 wickets any easier. Although, dropping Styris and playing Franklin, Martin, and Bond is a definite possibility. I do think Oram is good enough to be a 3rd seamer eventually; he still needs to work on his approach to the wicket though. His stutter step nearing the crease shouldn't be there.

So end result:

1) Fleming
2) ?
3) Marshall
4) Styris
5) Vincent
6) Astle
7) Oram
8) McCullum
9) Vettori
10) Franklin
11) Bond

or:

1) Fleming
2) ?
3) Marshall
4) Vincent
5) Astle
6) Oram
7) McCullum
8) Vettori
9) Franklin
10) Bond
11) Martin

All depending of anzac's favourtie topic: the 5-5 split or the 6-4 split. Sadly, as much as I rate Styris, he would be the logical choice to leave out - with Astle finally finding some semi-decent form and Vincent's return. I would go with the 6-4 split; I believe Astle and Styris are good enough to fill a 5th bowler's spot.

Sinclair, as per usual, would be the unlucky batsman after the summer. He should still be taken for the next tours in my opinon. I would rather see him open the innings than Cumming.

psxpro · 19-04-2005, 09:47 PM

Anzac I don't get what you mean about oram. Why can't he bat at 7 and still bowl lots of overs.
I think he is a very good batsman (capable of batting as high as 5 imo) who can bowl well too but it a much better bowler when other bowlers are taking wickets because he hit very hard to hit.

Mccullum should either open or bat at 8, while he is talented enough to bat higher he has been too insonsistant at important times.

Will Scarlet · 20-04-2005, 12:06 AM

I'd be happy to see this squad tour SA:

1) Fleming
2) How
3) Marshall
4) Fulton
5) Astle
6) Vincent
7) Oram
8) McCullum
9) Vettori
10) Franklin
11) Bond

12) Martin
13) Sinclair
14) Styris
15) Adams

Pratters · 20-04-2005, 12:14 AM

A much better way to go about it than seeing multiple threads regarding Indian cricket

Zinzan · 20-04-2005, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will Scarlet

I'd be happy to see this squad tour SA:

1) Fleming
2) How
3) Marshall
4) Fulton
5) Astle
6) Vincent
7) Oram
8) McCullum
9) Vettori
10) Franklin
11) Bond

12) Martin
13) Sinclair
14) Styris
15) Adams

Overall I like your squad....but would still start Styris ahead Fulton,but like the idea of Fulton touring. I also prefer your option of trying Jamie How over Cummings who seems to have to many technical problems for mine.

Hmmm.... a real toss up between experienced but underperformed Sinclair and new boy James Marshall. I'd probably give Marshall the nod....if nothing else having both Marshall brothers confuses the hell out of the opposition

Your starting XI would be good if we were say 1-0 up and trying to draw a match, but to bowl the opposition out I prefer the option of Oram at 6 and having the extra bowling resourse - either Martin or Franklin - depending on the wicket

Ming · 20-04-2005, 12:34 AM

It's a bit harshing dropping Cumming. He deserves another go, and showed promise. Jamie How won't tour SA, it's almost confirmed, with Bracewell, CD coach and How himself even saying he isn't ready for the international stage yet.

marc71178 · 20-04-2005, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinzan12

Your starting XI would be good if we were say 1-0 up and trying to draw a match, but to bowl the opposition out I prefer the option of Oram at 6 and having the extra bowling resourse - either Martin or Franklin - depending on the wicket

Isn't Bond, Franklin, Oram, Vettori and Astle enough firepower?

Darrin · 20-04-2005, 01:40 AM

Its really pretty simple as i see it...there is simply no-room for styris with vincent perfoming so well, I would not drop astle. I'm also a big fan of Peter Fulton but can't see him making his way in-which is a shame. so the lineup look somethimg like this:

fulton
j.marshall
h.marshall
fleming
astle
vincent
oram
mccullum
vettori
bond
martin

In the squad is styris, franklin, and wiseman.

I see people are still picking fleming as an opener...he is not an opener with h.marshall performing so well at 3, he comes in at 4. I believe there is enough bowling options there as astle provides good cover.

It continues to baffle me why they are not picking fulton. they keep coming up with wierd excuses.

Zinzan · 20-04-2005, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc71178

Isn't Bond, Franklin, Oram, Vettori and Astle enough firepower?

One could argue it is enough....however given Oram's good enough to bat at 6 and Mccullum and vettori to follow at 7 and 8 ....why not have the extra bowling option ...especially if Franklin plays and bats at 8 or 9 ...its still a long batting lineup

sportychic33 · 20-04-2005, 02:54 AM

quick question. .. why are so many of you guys set on having peter fulton in the team before styris. i would rather have styris play the first few games and see how he goes before bringing in fulton as styris has previously been a vital cog in the black caps side, with his batting and bowling.

Zinzan · 20-04-2005, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportychic33

quick question. .. why are so many of you guys set on having peter fulton in the team before styris. i would rather have styris play the first few games and see how he goes before bringing in fulton as styris has previously been a vital cog in the black caps side, with his batting and bowling.

You won't see me disagreeing with u on that ...Apart from his batting Styris's bowling is more than handy

sportychic33 · 20-04-2005, 03:00 AM

my touring team for SA

1.J Marshall
2.C Cumming
3.H Marshall
4.S Fleming
5.S Styris
6.N Astle
7.J Oram
8.B McCullum
9.D Vettori
10.S Bond
11.C Martin

12. L. Vincent
13. J. Franklin
14. D. Tuffey
15. P. Fulton

Tuffey's selection is dependent on form/fitness and mental state

. I'd have Mathew Sinclair on stand by in case of any damn injuries, i would also have Kyle Mills and Iain O'Brien on stand by.

sportychic33 · 20-04-2005, 03:07 AM

If we need to play one more pace bowler, I would move Oram up to 6 and drop Styris or Astle depending on form.

Sir Redman · 20-04-2005, 03:27 AM

The more I think about this the more I'm starting to like the idea of McCullum opening. I'm starting to change my mind on Cumming as well - before I thought we should definately keep him, now I'm not so sure. It seems to me as though everyone is assuming Bond is going to rip straight back in to international cricket and blast opposition batsmen out but given the length of time he's been off that's not guaranteed at all. That's why I'm starting to think we have to play both Martin and Franklin - otherwise we're too reliant on Bond and Vettori to take all the wickets, as Oram, Styris and Astle are not really wicket taking bowlers.
That said, maybe:

J Marshall
McCullum
H Marshall
Fleming
Astle
Vincent
Styris
Vettori
Franklin
Bond
Martin

would be our best bet to win.

There's still plenty of depth in the batting with Styris at 7, and it also gives us the extra bowling option. Otherwise it's a toss up between which of Martin and Franklin are going to have a good day.

EDIT: Ahh I forgot Oram. Scrap that team then. That would mean Martin and Franklin gunning for the same spot.

20-04-2005, 12:34 AM	#22 (permalink)
Ming State 12th Man Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hong Kong - Asia's World City Posts: 723	It's a bit harshing dropping Cumming. He deserves another go, and showed promise. Jamie How won't tour SA, it's almost confirmed, with Bracewell, CD coach and How himself even saying he isn't ready for the international stage yet. __________________ GO THE BLACK CAPS!!!

20-04-2005, 01:40 AM	#24 (permalink)
Darrin School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New zealand Posts: 80	Black Caps generic thread Its really pretty simple as i see it...there is simply no-room for styris with vincent perfoming so well, I would not drop astle. I'm also a big fan of Peter Fulton but can't see him making his way in-which is a shame. so the lineup look somethimg like this: fulton j.marshall h.marshall fleming astle vincent oram mccullum vettori bond martin In the squad is styris, franklin, and wiseman. I see people are still picking fleming as an opener...he is not an opener with h.marshall performing so well at 3, he comes in at 4. I believe there is enough bowling options there as astle provides good cover. It continues to baffle me why they are not picking fulton. they keep coming up with wierd excuses.

20-04-2005, 03:00 AM	#28 (permalink)
sportychic33 State 12th Man Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Palmy North Posts: 747	my touring team for SA 1.J Marshall 2.C Cumming 3.H Marshall 4.S Fleming 5.S Styris 6.N Astle 7.J Oram 8.B McCullum 9.D Vettori 10.S Bond 11.C Martin 12. L. Vincent 13. J. Franklin 14. D. Tuffey 15. P. Fulton Tuffey's selection is dependent on form/fitness and mental state . I'd have Mathew Sinclair on stand by in case of any damn injuries, i would also have Kyle Mills and Iain O'Brien on stand by. Last edited by sportychic33; 20-04-2005 at 03:04 AM.

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19-04-2005, 06:54 PM	#16 (permalink)
Blaze Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: NZ Posts: 5,124	J Marshall C Cumming H Marshall S Fleming L Vincent N Astle B McCullum J Frankiln P Wiseman K Mills C Martin This was our most recent test team.. as i see it the three players who are certianties to come back in are Oram, Vettori and Bond.. They would replace Wiseman, Mills and either Martin or Frankiln.. IMO Styris has to work his way back in to the team and wait for his opportunity and take it. It is a very healthy situation for NZ to be in.

19-04-2005, 09:02 PM	#17 (permalink)
Macka U19 Vice-Captain Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Dorkland, New Zealand Posts: 556	It's a pretty difficult choice. I think, at this stage, Oram is a batsman who bowls decently in Tests and a bowler who bats a bit in ODIs. Personally, I think the batting line-up all comes down to whether Fleming has enough mental ability to move back to opening. He has all the experience in the world; technically, he is better than he showed against Australia; and his team requires him to open the innings from my point of view. He has said he wanted to open the innings - pre Austraian mind you - if his team needed him to. Well, it's time for him to actually show some backbone and do it. No more talk. Don't make a big deal about it. Cumming seems to be a poor man's Richardson and I'm not convinced about James Marshall either. They will probably be given another few chances, but I'm far from convinced. I mentioned Hamish Marshall opening in the other thread, but I'm not so sure now. I think it's important for him to be told where he is batting for an entire series being new to the side. I believe he doesn't even have a net before he plays now, so mental preparation for him is extremely important. As for McCullum moving up the order: he probably has more talent in his little finger than most of the other batsman in the team; he's yet to show it, however. Still, we have the same problem from the Astle/McMillan era with Astle/Styris. Both aren't good starters - which could see a decent start ruined. As anzac mentioned, I think we need another batsman who can anchor the lower-order, batting between Astle and Styris. But then that would force one of them to play, mainly as a batsman, at 7 in my line-up. I think Vincent is much more circumspect at the begining of an innings than either Astle or Styris. He seems to have a good temperment as well. Oram would be another possiblity. I'm not convinced that having Mills or O'Brien in the team would mean we would take 20 wickets any easier. Although, dropping Styris and playing Franklin, Martin, and Bond is a definite possibility. I do think Oram is good enough to be a 3rd seamer eventually; he still needs to work on his approach to the wicket though. His stutter step nearing the crease shouldn't be there. So end result: 1) Fleming 2) ? 3) Marshall 4) Styris 5) Vincent 6) Astle 7) Oram 8) McCullum 9) Vettori 10) Franklin 11) Bond or: 1) Fleming 2) ? 3) Marshall 4) Vincent 5) Astle 6) Oram 7) McCullum 8) Vettori 9) Franklin 10) Bond 11) Martin All depending of anzac's favourtie topic: the 5-5 split or the 6-4 split. Sadly, as much as I rate Styris, he would be the logical choice to leave out - with Astle finally finding some semi-decent form and Vincent's return. I would go with the 6-4 split; I believe Astle and Styris are good enough to fill a 5th bowler's spot. Sinclair, as per usual, would be the unlucky batsman after the summer. He should still be taken for the next tours in my opinon. I would rather see him open the innings than Cumming.

19-04-2005, 09:47 PM	#18 (permalink)
psxpro Banned Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NZ Posts: 692	Anzac I don't get what you mean about oram. Why can't he bat at 7 and still bowl lots of overs. I think he is a very good batsman (capable of batting as high as 5 imo) who can bowl well too but it a much better bowler when other bowlers are taking wickets because he hit very hard to hit. Mccullum should either open or bat at 8, while he is talented enough to bat higher he has been too insonsistant at important times.

20-04-2005, 12:06 AM	#19 (permalink)
Will Scarlet U19 Debutant Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Melbourne, AUS Posts: 335	I'd be happy to see this squad tour SA: 1) Fleming 2) How 3) Marshall 4) Fulton 5) Astle 6) Vincent 7) Oram 8) McCullum 9) Vettori 10) Franklin 11) Bond 12) Martin 13) Sinclair 14) Styris 15) Adams

20-04-2005, 12:14 AM	#20 (permalink)
Pratters Banned Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kolkata, India Posts: 20,794	A much better way to go about it than seeing multiple threads regarding Indian cricket

20-04-2005, 02:54 AM	#26 (permalink)
sportychic33 State 12th Man Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Palmy North Posts: 747	quick question. .. why are so many of you guys set on having peter fulton in the team before styris. i would rather have styris play the first few games and see how he goes before bringing in fulton as styris has previously been a vital cog in the black caps side, with his batting and bowling.

20-04-2005, 03:07 AM	#29 (permalink)
sportychic33 State 12th Man Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Palmy North Posts: 747	If we need to play one more pace bowler, I would move Oram up to 6 and drop Styris or Astle depending on form.

20-04-2005, 03:27 AM	#30 (permalink)
Sir Redman State Vice-Captain Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,406	The more I think about this the more I'm starting to like the idea of McCullum opening. I'm starting to change my mind on Cumming as well - before I thought we should definately keep him, now I'm not so sure. It seems to me as though everyone is assuming Bond is going to rip straight back in to international cricket and blast opposition batsmen out but given the length of time he's been off that's not guaranteed at all. That's why I'm starting to think we have to play both Martin and Franklin - otherwise we're too reliant on Bond and Vettori to take all the wickets, as Oram, Styris and Astle are not really wicket taking bowlers. That said, maybe: J Marshall McCullum H Marshall Fleming Astle Vincent Styris Vettori Franklin Bond Martin would be our best bet to win. There's still plenty of depth in the batting with Styris at 7, and it also gives us the extra bowling option. Otherwise it's a toss up between which of Martin and Franklin are going to have a good day. EDIT: Ahh I forgot Oram. Scrap that team then. That would mean Martin and Franklin gunning for the same spot.

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