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English spin bowlers

vvk

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Apart from Giles, are there any spinners in the county circuit worth testing at international level?

I say this because....it may be worthwile playing with 2 spinners in the side against Bangladesh with a view of potentially including an extra spinner in an Ashes test match against the Australians.
 

LongHopCassidy

International Captain
Nah. There's no real emerging talent anyway, and how's a series against Bangladesh going to prepare an enterprising tweaker for five Tests against the Great Satan?
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
English spin bowlers .....

....are fabulous !!

PS: Fabulous derives its origin from fable :sleep:
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
:laugh:

On a serious note, Giles is our only spin bowler of any note. The fact that Batty is our 2nd best I find a little disturbing.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Tom Halsey said:
:laugh:

On a serious note, Giles is our only spin bowler of any note. The fact that Batty is our 2nd best I find a little disturbing.
Its really a tragedy. England hasnt had a great tradition, at least since the second WW of leg spin but finger spinners , both left and right handed have always been there. I dont know why this sudden extinction of the spinner in the last 15 odd years. Almost all the top spinners of the world have been bowling in the county circuit all these years, so its not as if there is nothing to inspire them in the domestic circuit.

Can anyone tell me why ?

I know the one day game is not ideal for spinners but nowhere is it felt as acutely as in England. Given that West Indies, New Zealand and South Africa haven't really had spinners since the war. India, Pakistan, Australia and Sri Lanka havent been starved of spin like England.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Uncovered pitches have had a hell fo a lot to do with it IMO. I know they came in in the 1970's, but I think it took a while to take it's toll on the number of finger-spinners. There is no denying it definately makes them less effective.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Tom Halsey said:
Uncovered pitches have had a hell fo a lot to do with it IMO. I know they came in in the 1970's, but I think it took a while to take it's toll on the number of finger-spinners. There is no denying it definately makes them less effective.
But Murali and Saqlain havent done badly in England.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Murali is a wrist-spinner, he merely bowls off-breaks.

Saqlain is fairly unorthodox, and did well for a while, but when people worked him out, he has struggled alot.
 

LongHopCassidy

International Captain
But Murali and Saqlain havent done badly in England.
Yes, well, they're good. :p

Seriously, I think it's the encouragement tweakers receive in the subcontinent that inspires them to work on their technique that will work on any pitch to varying degrees, but especially the one they are raised on.

English youngsters, however, see medium pace bowling as (rightly) most effective on the typical English pitch which works in the minor grades, but doesn't cut the mustard at Test level. As Bob Willis put it in his fast bowling guide, "The idea of real pace is drummed out of young English cricketers at an early age, and the void refilled with the mantra of 'line and length.'"
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
LongHopCassidy said:
Yes, well, they're good. :p

Seriously, I think it's the encouragement tweakers receive in the subcontinent that inspires them to work on their technique that will work on any pitch to varying degrees, but especially the one they are raised on.

English youngsters, however, see medium pace bowling as (rightly) most effective on the typical English pitch which works in the minor grades, but doesn't cut the mustard at Test level. As Bob Willis put it in his fast bowling guide, "The idea of real pace is drummed out of young English cricketers at an early age, and the void refilled with the mantra of 'line and length.'"
Thats more like it.

I have always felt that the way English cricket has been going has to have a lot to do with the early coaching. I wonder what kind of emphasis there is on spin bowling and how good is the quality of coaches imparting knowledge on spin. Its not uncommon to see a particular style of bowling or batting (including stance and grip) to quickly spread in a geographic area or even a country.

There is a sameness about English cricketers which has to be traceable back to coaching.
 

kendall

U19 Vice-Captain
SJS said:
Thats more like it.

I have always felt that the way English cricket has been going has to have a lot to do with the early coaching. I wonder what kind of emphasis there is on spin bowling and how good is the quality of coaches imparting knowledge on spin. Its not uncommon to see a particular style of bowling or batting (including stance and grip) to quickly spread in a geographic area or even a country.

There is a sameness about English cricketers which has to be traceable back to coaching.
certainly in cricket coaching ive recieved very little emphasis has been placed on spin bowling maybe because it is very hard and most of the youngsters that do take it up are discouraged from an early age as they are often hit around a lot
 

Adamc

Cricketer Of The Year
Is Graeme Swann any good? Domestic stats are OK, though worse than Giles', but he's still fairly young.
 

Link

State Vice-Captain
SirBloody Idiot said:
Give us Dawson :D
i dont know what to make of this post.

Batty is not the second best spinner, hes not really even a spinner he is just good with the bat and looks like he bowls spin but he doesnt. Now the second is definatly Dawson. My signiture gives me away but this is true. Last season he picked up lots of wickets bowled very tight especially in OD matches more impressive than Gilo. But moreover regarding spinners he turned it a lot. Headingly is death row for spinners but he spun the ball on that surface too. Very impressive, i'll be damned if batty gets the nod infont of dawson anymore
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
I only saw Dawson once last year, and he looked ordinary then, so I can only assume that was a one off if he bowled like you say. Would need to see more of him to be certain though, didn’t impress me for England at all, although that was a while ago.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
superkingdave said:
IMO Purely on bowling Keedy>>>>>>>>>Dawson
Yeah from what I’ve seen it’d be hard to argue with that. I said it last year I’d like him as our 2nd spinner rather than Batty.
 

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