English spin bowlers

[Kweek]

he was at ICC haha

 

[marc71178]

He's arguably the 2nd best spinner (although you could probably give that accolade to Jason Brown @ Northants too)

Brown's seasons fluctuate amazingly.

 

[SJS]

most of the youngsters that do take it up are discouraged from an early age as they are often hit around a lot

Thats the problem of the mind set influenced by the limited over game. When I was younger, our coach made us feel (as spinners) that it was a good sign if the batsmen were hitting us around as long as it was not off the back foot !!

We were encouraged to make the bowlers drive us off the front foot and all the coaching was around getting the batsmen to make mistakes while driving off the front foot.

 

[aussie]

i think Keeds is likely to have his opportunities limited by Murali (at least until start of Aug) si i think swann is definately in the driving seat

nah i dont see why lanchashire wont let both of them play together

 

[aussie]

Back to topic, seeing as we'll probably take three spinners to the subcontinent this winter (India [b[and[/b] Pakistan... Giles is certain, Batty probable... then Swann or Keedy - Keedy's a possible as an out-and-out bowler as we'll only play two frontline seamers plus Freddy.

Batty hasn't really impressed me, but looking for to the winter tours to the sub-continent, i'm not so sure if 3 spinners will go on tour neil, i would say two at this stage i would go for Swann he did fairly well with the ENG (A) over there recently & since he has moved to nottinghamshire this season, this could be the season that makes or breaks Graeme Swann but i for one like the lad & is backing him to have a good season with the notts & get the nod over Batty & Keedy

 

[superkingdave]

nah i dont see why lanchashire wont let both of them play together

well i think later in the year the pitches would be more condusive to such a tactic, but that's when Murali will be leaving

 

[chaminda_00]

well i think later in the year the pitches would be more condusive to such a tactic, but that's when Murali will be leaving

I would think that they would play Cork, Chapple and Mahmood as bowling all rounders and bat them at 7 to 9 and then play Murali and Keedy at 10 and 11. If Anderson is available throughout the season then will probably drop Keedy, but how often is he available especially if his 12th Man for every game like last season. There is also chance they could drop one of the quicks if they don't perform like last season, espically considering most English guys think Old Trafford is a turner of some sorts.

 

[twctopcat]

I think that the ECB see Swann as the long term giles replacement given that he can hold a bat unless some wonder kid wrist spinner comes along soon, but the likelihood of that who knows......

 

[chaminda_00]

I think that the ECB see Swann as the long term giles replacement given that he can hold a bat unless some wonder kid wrist spinner comes along soon, but the likelihood of that who knows......

What the deal with all u poms wanting a spinner who can hold the bat, there is more importent things to spin bowling and being able to score 50s or whatever with the bat. Your number one objective is to take wickets not to score runs. Why don't you look for a fast bowler who can bat and pick a spin bowlers on his bowling abilities not his batting abilities. Also a finger spinner can be as effective as a wrist spin bowler.

 

[twctopcat]

What the deal with all u poms wanting a spinner who can hold the bat, there is more importent things to spin bowling and being able to score 50s or whatever with the bat. Your number one objective is to take wickets not to score runs. Why don't you look for a fast bowler who can bat and pick a spin bowlers on his bowling abilities not his batting abilities. Also a finger spinner can be as effective as a wrist spin bowler.

I was referring to the winter tours of the subcontinent, where we will probably need a spinner rather than a pacer, something we have less problem with finding anyway. I know a spinner should take wickets but when all our spinners are similar with the ball (batty, dawson, swann etc), you invariably take the one with the better batting and fielding.
Wrist spinners tend to be effective on all pitches also whereas fingerspinners have to have assistance from the pitch most of the time. The fact that murali and warne are the best spinners in the world tends to say that a wrist spinner is a better option to look for and develop than a finger spinner.

 

[vvk]

I think England should fast-track a couple of youngsters against Bangladesh and surprise the Aussie's should the need arise.

 

[chaminda_00]

I was referring to the winter tours of the subcontinent, where we will probably need a spinner rather than a pacer, something we have less problem with finding anyway. I know a spinner should take wickets but when all our spinners are similar with the ball (batty, dawson, swann etc), you invariably take the one with the better batting and fielding.

Well Keedy is easier a better spinner then any of those three and age isn't big factor when you talking about spiners cus Keedy at his peak right now.

Wrist spinners tend to be effective on all pitches also whereas fingerspinners have to have assistance from the pitch most of the time. The fact that murali and warne are the best spinners in the world tends to say that a wrist spinner is a better option to look for and develop than a finger spinner.

And that the theory that got Bandara and Chris Scofield selected at 20 or something. There is more importent things to spin bowling then which action you use, it is what you do with that action is what matters. Would you say that Brad Hogg and Paul Adams are better spin bowlers then Bhajji, Vettori, Giles or Rafique. Also a lot of leggie need assistiant from the pitch just look at Danish and Chandana away from the sub-continent and Kumble only resently has bowled effectively away from the sub-continent.

 

[chaminda_00]

I think England should fast-track a couple of youngsters against Bangladesh and surprise the Aussie's should the need arise.

My side for Bangladesh:
A Cook
A Struass
R Key
M Vaughan (c)
K Pietersen
I Bell
G Jones (wk)
G Swann
S Mahmood
S Jones
J Anderson


Maybe this side would be cheaping the English cap but it not much different to when England sent second string sides to play South Africa back in the day

 

[twctopcat]

Well Keedy is easier a better spinner then any of those three and age isn't big factor when you talking about spiners cus Keedy at his peak right now.

He is certainly better but i don't think the difference is anything compared to Giles at this point, coupled with his lack of batting. If Swann was given more responsibility at notts this year he could well perform just as well.

And that the theory that got Bandara and Chris Scofield selected at 20 or something. There is more importent things to spin bowling then which action you use, it is what you do with that action is what matters. Would you say that Brad Hogg and Paul Adams are better spin bowlers then Bhajji, Vettori, Giles or Rafique. Also a lot of leggie need assistiant from the pitch just look at Danish and Chandana away from the sub-continent and Kumble only resently has bowled effectively away from the sub-continent.

I didn't mean pick a wristy simply because thats what they bowl, each selection has to be taken on its merits. By you twisting my words with the hogg/adams compared to harbhajan means you have missed my point. I was merely saying that wrist spinning should be encouraged as i would rather have a decent wristy over a decent finger spinner anyday, thats pretty obvious really.

 

[vvk]

What about Ian Salisbury?

 

[superkingdave]

what about him?

 

[sledger]

What about Ian Salisbury?

no way near test standard nowadays, never was really

 

[sledger]

I think England should fast-track a couple of youngsters against Bangladesh and surprise the Aussie's should the need arise.

but if the youngsters played well against bangladesh that would mean nothing, if englands best did not play sufficiently then the youngsters would no way near be upto the job. The fact that the young players would get more experience playing against otehr county sides than bangladesh would mean that it would be a pointless excercise, the tests against bangladesh should just be used to get some of the better players who are lacking form back into good form.

 

[marc71178]

If Anderson is available throughout the season then will probably drop Keedy, but how often is he available especially if his 12th Man for every game like last season.

I can't see Anderson being named in any Test squads this year.

 

[marc71178]

I think England should fast-track a couple of youngsters against Bangladesh and surprise the Aussie's should the need arise.

I'd like to know who these players are that you'd fast-track, and who they'd replace?