Dhoni as an opener in tests

vvk · 06-04-2005, 05:37 AM

This would allow the Indian team to drop Gambhir, and accomodate either Yuvraj Singh or Mohammad Kaif into the line-up. Imagine an opening combination comprising of Dhoni and Sehwag, both have similar games and will provide the Indians with explosive, matchwinning starts to their innings'.

vic_orthdox · 06-04-2005, 05:46 AM

it'd be interesting to see how that would work. when gilchrist originally went up to open in ODIs, Mark Waugh was seen as an explosive opener, but i think it would be fair to say that he, if not became a lil more mellow, certainly seemed it. wouldn't be suprised if that happened in that hypothetical too. and always a danger of being two quick wickets down when you have two very explosive players at the top of the order...but when it comes off, WOW!

_Ed_ · 06-04-2005, 05:48 AM

Bit harsh making your keeper open the batting though, they deserve a bit of rest after all the work they do behind the stumps.

Spetsnatz · 06-04-2005, 05:52 AM

Dhoni doesn't even open in first class cricket -- why you'd want him to open in test match cricket is beyond me.

And I don't see what Gambhir has done so badly that you want to drop him -- young players need time to develop. Sacking them after a handful of tests (in spite of reasonable performances is not the way to go).

SJS · 06-04-2005, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvk

This would allow the Indian team to drop Gambhir, and accomodate either Yuvraj Singh or Mohammad Kaif into the line-up. Imagine an opening combination comprising of Dhoni and Sehwag, both have similar games and will provide the Indians with explosive, matchwinning starts to their innings'.

Why should it be done to include Yuvraj ?

If Yuvraj cant be expected to perform as an opener, presumably because a test opener requires different skills and temprament, why should Dhoni be expected to succeed ?

Why do we need Dhoni opening to achieve this national goal of accomodating Yuvraj ?

Why not ask Dravid or Ganguly or Tendulkar to open ?

Why is an openers position so dispensable ? Havent we suffered enough and only just stopped whining about how we just dont seem to get a reliable opening pair ??

chaminda_00 · 06-04-2005, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJS

Why should it be done to include Yuvraj ?

If Yuvraj cant be expected to perform as an opener, presumably because a test opener requires different skills and temprament, why should Dhoni be expected to succeed ?

Why do we need Dhoni opening to achieve this national goal of accomodating Yuvraj ?

Why not ask Dravid or Ganguly or Tendulkar to open ?

Why is an openers position so dispensable ? Havent we suffered enough and only just stopped whining about how we just dont seem to get a reliable opening pair ??

Have to agree, opening the batting with a keeper, especially one that doesn't open in FC Matches would be two steps back from Indian cricket. Gambhir has done a good job for India opening the batting and is any aggresive batsmen anyway. I see no reason why Dhoni should be given a run in the Test side at 7, if his keeping up to, or opening the batting in ODIs, but not in Tests. They tried this too often let the keeper, that the solution, well it isn't the solution finding one more solid batsmen to open that the key and really they found that with Gambhir. Keep it the same and if you want to bring Dhoni in then bring him at 7.

deeps · 06-04-2005, 06:23 AM

one innings and you think he's the next gilly. Kartik has done well at test level and should stay in the test team. Dhoni for odi's and kartik for tests. and gambhir is doin really well keep him

vvk · 06-04-2005, 06:33 AM

I feel the number 7 position would not be suitable for a player of Dhoni's class. He would have to regularly bat with the Indian tail, which is really one of the poorest tails in international cricket.

Also I feel Gambhir has really looked out of his depth at test level. Every innings he seems to do something stupid and get himself out after a good start.

deeps · 06-04-2005, 06:38 AM

doing something stupid and getting out is better than being "got out" by a bowler

experience will fix his problem

vic_orthdox · 06-04-2005, 06:48 AM

i would have thought that with guys like pathan and kumble, its far from a shocker of a tail in india.

masterblaster · 06-04-2005, 06:49 AM

Stick to Gambhir at the moment. I'd rate Gambhir as a better test player than Yuvraj and Kaif at this stage. He's one of the best young genuine openers in India. No need for Yuvraj/Kaif in the test side yet.

As for Dhoni, he could come in at number 7 in place of Dinesh Karthik. But I'd be interested if Dhoni consistently performs for India. There is still a chance he could be India's own Shahid Afridi, in that when he clicks, he scores a 100, but when he doesnt he's substandard.

Dhoni needs to start scoring runs consistently and consistently have good glovework to be considered in the test side. As of right now, Yuvraj doesnt warrant a place in the test side at the expense of Gautam Gambhir.

vvk · 06-04-2005, 06:52 AM

You only have to compare their first-class records to see that Dhoni is on a totally different class to Afridi.

Although, you are right, we have to wait and see if he can deliver such performances regularly for India. But I don't think it's very easy to do that when batting down the order with an incompetent tail.

Mr Mxyzptlk · 06-04-2005, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvk

I feel the number 7 position would not be suitable for a player of Dhoni's class. He would have to regularly bat with the Indian tail, which is really one of the poorest tails in international cricket.

Also I feel Gambhir has really looked out of his depth at test level. Every innings he seems to do something stupid and get himself out after a good start.

How does that make him out of his depth?! It indicates to me that he can definitely cope with international bowlers.

Regarding Dhoni and his class, he averages mid30s in FC cricket from memory. That's not flash by Indian standards.

vvk · 06-04-2005, 06:56 AM

I was actually referring to his List-A limited overs record, which is up near the 50s.

Well, it indicates it is out of his depth because he has not shown sufficiant mental prowess to succeed at the highest level so far.

Mr Mxyzptlk · 06-04-2005, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvk

You only have to compare their first-class records to see that Dhoni is on a totally different class to Afridi.

Although, you are right, we have to wait and see if he can deliver such performances regularly for India. But I don't think it's very easy to do that when batting down the order with an incompetent tail.

And yet still not in an amazingly high class. He average 36.75 on Indian pitches against Indian domestic bowlers.

06-04-2005, 05:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
vvk School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Perth, WA Posts: 94	Dhoni as an opener in tests This would allow the Indian team to drop Gambhir, and accomodate either Yuvraj Singh or Mohammad Kaif into the line-up. Imagine an opening combination comprising of Dhoni and Sehwag, both have similar games and will provide the Indians with explosive, matchwinning starts to their innings'.

06-04-2005, 05:52 AM	#4 (permalink)
Spetsnatz School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: May 2004 Location: Moscow Posts: 89	Dhoni doesn't even open in first class cricket -- why you'd want him to open in test match cricket is beyond me. And I don't see what Gambhir has done so badly that you want to drop him -- young players need time to develop. Sacking them after a handful of tests (in spite of reasonable performances is not the way to go). __________________ In 1995, 16 commandos of the GRU Spetsnatz went head to head against 16 US ARMY Rangers in Alaska in ten tests of physical strength and endurance. Final Result: Spetsnatz 9 US Army Rangers 1 RIP Vladimir Belyanov (d December 24 1942) Tamanskaya Division (Taman Guards) - Pitomnik Airfield, Stalingrad

06-04-2005, 06:49 AM	#11 (permalink)
masterblaster International Captain Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 6,065	Stick to Gambhir at the moment. I'd rate Gambhir as a better test player than Yuvraj and Kaif at this stage. He's one of the best young genuine openers in India. No need for Yuvraj/Kaif in the test side yet. As for Dhoni, he could come in at number 7 in place of Dinesh Karthik. But I'd be interested if Dhoni consistently performs for India. There is still a chance he could be India's own Shahid Afridi, in that when he clicks, he scores a 100, but when he doesnt he's substandard. Dhoni needs to start scoring runs consistently and consistently have good glovework to be considered in the test side. As of right now, Yuvraj doesnt warrant a place in the test side at the expense of Gautam Gambhir. __________________ Self Elected Vice-President of AAAS (Ajit Agarkar Appreciation Society) "Uniting Ajit Agarkar Fans World Wide" Always Live Life With: Intensity, Integrity and Intelligence

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06-04-2005, 05:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
vic_orthdox Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 24,363	it'd be interesting to see how that would work. when gilchrist originally went up to open in ODIs, Mark Waugh was seen as an explosive opener, but i think it would be fair to say that he, if not became a lil more mellow, certainly seemed it. wouldn't be suprised if that happened in that hypothetical too. and always a danger of being two quick wickets down when you have two very explosive players at the top of the order...but when it comes off, WOW!

06-04-2005, 05:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
_Ed_ Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Auckland, Aotearoa Posts: 19,095	Bit harsh making your keeper open the batting though, they deserve a bit of rest after all the work they do behind the stumps.

06-04-2005, 06:23 AM	#7 (permalink)
deeps International 12th Man Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: perth, australia Posts: 1,661	one innings and you think he's the next gilly. Kartik has done well at test level and should stay in the test team. Dhoni for odi's and kartik for tests. and gambhir is doin really well keep him

06-04-2005, 06:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
vvk School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Perth, WA Posts: 94	I feel the number 7 position would not be suitable for a player of Dhoni's class. He would have to regularly bat with the Indian tail, which is really one of the poorest tails in international cricket. Also I feel Gambhir has really looked out of his depth at test level. Every innings he seems to do something stupid and get himself out after a good start.

06-04-2005, 06:38 AM	#9 (permalink)
deeps International 12th Man Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: perth, australia Posts: 1,661	doing something stupid and getting out is better than being "got out" by a bowler experience will fix his problem

06-04-2005, 06:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
vic_orthdox Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 24,363	i would have thought that with guys like pathan and kumble, its far from a shocker of a tail in india.

06-04-2005, 06:52 AM	#12 (permalink)
vvk School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Perth, WA Posts: 94	You only have to compare their first-class records to see that Dhoni is on a totally different class to Afridi. Although, you are right, we have to wait and see if he can deliver such performances regularly for India. But I don't think it's very easy to do that when batting down the order with an incompetent tail.

06-04-2005, 06:56 AM	#14 (permalink)
vvk School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Perth, WA Posts: 94	I was actually referring to his List-A limited overs record, which is up near the 50s. Well, it indicates it is out of his depth because he has not shown sufficiant mental prowess to succeed at the highest level so far.

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