How important Mcgrath and Warne are to Australia..

[Zinzan]

I was just skimming through the NZ and Aust test series averages for the 3 matches played in NZ.

I was suprised to see that in the 3 matches that Kaspa took 8 wickets @ 39.87 and Gillispie took just 7 wickets @ 45.71

Whereas Mcgrath and Warne were 18 @ 15.72 and 17 @ 22 respectively.

 

[kendall]

Along with Gilchrist they are what really set Austrilia apart from the rest of the world and absolutly vital. They are 2 bowlers no matter how much strength in depth Australia have that are ireplasable and they wont be around for much longer

 

[The Argonaut]

Agreed.

We saw what happened when Australia lost those two in the summer against India. They are irreplacable.

 

[marc71178]

Did it really need yet another thread though?

 

[Slifer]

I would tend to go with Mcgrath more than warne especially when it comes to India and perhaps WI warne tends to struggle a bit against the bats of these 2 teams esp India but Mcgrath is supreme against all.

 

[Zinzan]

Did it really need yet another thread though?

Do you really expect people to Always search through hundreds of pages to find a similar thread. I felt this point needed to be made outside the official NZ and Aust thread.

Do you always have to be such a stickler for the rules??

Did I miss another thread demonstrating how important Warne and Mcgrath were to Australia???

 

[dinu23]

aus bowling attack is pretty ordinary without warne and mcgrath. I remember an ODI played in Aus where warne and mcgrath were not playing, and the others got hammered all over the park by Sanath.

 

[cameeel]

While McGrath is undoubtably our best fast bowler, even without him we have one of the strongest pace stocks, gillespie, kasprowicz, lee and even SA bowler shaun tait are all great fast bowlers

 

[chaminda_00]

While McGrath is undoubtably our best fast bowler, even without him we have one of the strongest pace stocks, gillespie, kasprowicz, lee and even SA bowler shaun tait are all great fast bowlers

I don't know about that im sure people in the Windies were saying the same thing when it came to Ambrose and Walsh. At the end of their career Bishop was probably up there with one of the top bowlers in the world and Dillon and Rose where providing suffient support. They probably thought they would loss allot when they retire but they still had guys who would keep them at the top of game or atleast 2 or 3. Like we all know it didn't happen and bowlers like these guys are unreplaceable. Australia will go back to field, just look at India Test Series or that ODI in Sydney where Jayasuriya and Atapattu had a field day.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I think the truth is somewhere between the two major estimations - that Australia will be fine without them and that Australia will crash back into the field. Australia will be able to replace them and will probably still be the top side in the world, but the domination will begin to drop off once they no longer have those two to go back to whenever anything goes wrong, and you will see them losing more test matches if not entire series. The retirements of Warne and McGrath will co-incide somewhat with the end of the careers of the other mid 30s Australian players like Langer, Hayden, Martyn and Gilchrist, and as such I think Australia will suffer a drop off over a period of time as those players gradually leave, assuming they don't all leave after the 2007 World Cup (and I don't think they will - it will take time).

Australia will still be the number one side in the world all the way to the 2011 World Cup in my opinion, but the gap will be much smaller than it is now. This of course isn't saying a lot, since the gap now is the biggest it has ever been between 1st and 2nd in test cricket. Whether you think the 80s Windies or the Invincibles were better or not, unquestionably both those eras had a more competitive number 2 side than today.

 

[chaminda_00]

I think the truth is somewhere between the two major estimations - that Australia will be fine without them and that Australia will crash back into the field. Australia will be able to replace them and will probably still be the top side in the world, but the domination will begin to drop off once they no longer have those two to go back to whenever anything goes wrong, and you will see them losing more test matches if not entire series. The retirements of Warne and McGrath will co-incide somewhat with the end of the careers of the other mid 30s Australian players like Langer, Hayden, Martyn and Gilchrist, and as such I think Australia will suffer a drop off over a period of time as those players gradually leave, assuming they don't all leave after the 2007 World Cup (and I don't think they will - it will take time).

Australia will still be the number one side in the world all the way to the 2011 World Cup in my opinion, but the gap will be much smaller than it is now. This of course isn't saying a lot, since the gap now is the biggest it has ever been between 1st and 2nd in test cricket. Whether you think the 80s Windies or the Invincibles were better or not, unquestionably both those eras had a more competitive number 2 side than today.

England is probably a lot closer to this current Australian side then the England '48 team to the Invincibles, but ur probably right at Windies of the 80s and the teams below them.

Australia may still be number one by 2011 but not by much. Allot depends on whether the selectors go for the Katich, Hussey age group or skip them and go for the Watson, Tait age group. If they go for the later i don't think they will be number one, their guys in that age group that have potential but it would be hard for them if their all throw in the deep end at once.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Australia may still be number one by 2011 but not by much. Allot depends on whether the selectors go for the Katich, Hussey age group or skip them and go for the Watson, Tait age group. If they go for the later i don't think they will be number one, their guys in that age group that have potential but it would be hard for them if their all throw in the deep end at once.

They'll go for a mix. Let's say everyone in their mid 30s retires after the 2007 WC, the lineup would look like this, based on current form.

Hussey
Jaques
Ponting
Clarke
Katich
Watson
Haddin
Lee
Gillespie
Cullen/Macgill
Tait

It's hard to say how this side would do, but my bet is they would still be number 1 today, and they will all be better players with the possible exception of Gillespie, Lee and Ponting in two years time. My point is, I don't think Australia will dominate like they do now, but I also don't think they will fall back into the pack. It will be somewhere between the two.

 

[chaminda_00]

They'll go for a mix. Let's say everyone in their mid 30s retires after the 2007 WC, the lineup would look like this, based on current form.

Hussey
Jaques
Ponting
Clarke
Katich
Watson
Haddin
Lee
Gillespie
Cullen/Macgill
Tait

It's hard to say how this side would do, but my bet is they would still be number 1 today, and they will all be better players with the possible exception of Gillespie, Lee and Ponting in two years time. My point is, I don't think Australia will dominate like they do now, but I also don't think they will fall back into the pack. It will be somewhere between the two.

If u put that side aganist an England team without Thorpe ( both Bell or KP would be in), an Indian side on form it would be a 3-way battle at the top. You could also add Pakistan to that as they side is really young and will probably develop to be as strong as those three.

 

[marc71178]

Did I miss another thread demonstrating how important Warne and Mcgrath were to Australia???

That exact point had been brought up in the Tour thread less than a day previously.

 

[marc71178]

While McGrath is undoubtably our best fast bowler, even without him we have one of the strongest pace stocks, gillespie, kasprowicz, lee and even SA bowler shaun tait are all great fast bowlers

That depends on the definition of "Great"

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

If u put that side aganist an England team without Thorpe ( both Bell or KP would be in), an Indian side on form it would be a 3-way battle at the top. You could also add Pakistan to that as they side is really young and will probably develop to be as strong as those three.

Yes, but I think those players are likely to develop further in the time between now and when Hayden, Langer, Martyn, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath leave. New players may also emerge. The point is that in Ponting, Clarke, Katich, Gillespie, Lee and Macgill Australia have a solid foundation on which to build another strong team after the current crop are gone, and I can't see them falling back into the pack any time within the next few years, just dominating to a lesser degree and losing more matches.

 

[Slats4ever]

They're both top bowlers and at the moment are the men that Ponting turns to when the pressure's on. However Jason Gillespie and Brett Lee (in form) are far superior to any other quick bowler around the world at the moment and will be able to hold the mantle left by McGrath. Then there'll always be a good first changer somewhere to help out the quicks.

We'll also be able to cope without Warne, we've done it in the OD'ers and it shouldn't really be a problem in the extended version.

Sure it won't be as strong but it won't be too far off.

 

[chaminda_00]

Yes, but I think those players are likely to develop further in the time between now and when Hayden, Langer, Martyn, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath leave. New players may also emerge. The point is that in Ponting, Clarke, Katich, Gillespie, Lee and Macgill Australia have a solid foundation on which to build another strong team after the current crop are gone, and I can't see them falling back into the pack any time within the next few years, just dominating to a lesser degree and losing more matches.

Those guys will develop but in domestic cricket not international crciket like the guys from the other teams. The guys from the other teams will develop faster then the Australian players. Therefore making them as strong as a future Australian team, if not stronger. Also MacGill not that young, even though spinners can play for longer i think when Warne retires one of the younger guys will be given a go. There also as much chance of a young superstar coming through the Australian ranks as much as any other team.

 

[Slats4ever]

thing is though the standard and quality of Australian domestic cricket is on par with world cricket... so the guys who are being bought up in the domestic level are getting just abuot the same standard cricket on test level...

and in the age of airplanes and stuff when seasons go on overseas tours they're used to wickets overseas as well..

 

[chaminda_00]

They're both top bowlers and at the moment are the men that Ponting turns to when the pressure's on. However Jason Gillespie and Brett Lee (in form) are far superior to any other quick bowler around the world at the moment and will be able to hold the mantle left by McGrath. Then there'll always be a good first changer somewhere to help out the quicks.

We'll also be able to cope without Warne, we've done it in the OD'ers and it shouldn't really be a problem in the extended version.

Sure it won't be as strong but it won't be too far off.

I don't know about the far superior part, they are better but not that much better.

OD'ers are completely different to test cricket, when it comes to spin bowling. Also Hogg doesn't play ever game and your not going to get away with playing four quicks in Test Cricket, unless their four world class quicks, i.e Windies quicks in the past.