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Thread: England's Ashes hopes vs Australia's sure Ashes chances

  1. #31
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    But really who would Thorpe, Vaughan, Struass and Flintoff replace if avaliable for this aussie side??
    Flintoff could be considered ahead of Katich, Strauss against Langer, Vaughan could challenge any place in the side, etc. I'm not saying who is better but I'm considering the scenario in the following way; say Flintoff and Katich were both out of the side and it was down to them for one spot, who would win? Out of Strauss and Langer, who would win. Personally I'd pick Langer based on the fact that he's done the business for many years now but as far as raw ability goes, tough choice.
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  2. #32
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    3-1 or 3-2 to Australia and I expect (and hope) that England win a LIVE test this time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    In the end, I think it's so utterly, incomprehensibly boring. There is so much context behind each innings of cricket that dissecting statistics into these small samples is just worthless. No-one has ever been faced with the same situation in which they come out to bat as someone else. Ever.
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  3. #33
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat
    Flintoff could be considered ahead of Katich, Strauss against Langer, Vaughan could challenge any place in the side, etc. I'm not saying who is better but I'm considering the scenario in the following way; say Flintoff and Katich were both out of the side and it was down to them for one spot, who would win? Out of Strauss and Langer, who would win. Personally I'd pick Langer based on the fact that he's done the business for many years now but as far as raw ability goes, tough choice.
    Possibly Flintoff for Katich, but personally i don't feel aussie need the extra bowler. If they did they would drop Katich anyway and have Gilly come in at 6 and bring Lee in.

    As for the others .....we disagree

  4. #34
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    A composite side at the moment would be tough without seeing the Ashes first, but in terms of who would come into the Australian side if all the English players were available, Flintoff would be fairly certain for me. He's a quality bowler and while he's not in Katich's class as a batsman he's not too far off.
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  5. #35
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox
    thorpe <----> katich
    strauss <----> hayden
    flintoff <----> clarke
    vaughan <----> langer (or any of the above)

    last of these probably most controversial, and langer doesn't deserve to be dropped, but i reckon that vaughan is a better player than langer...and probably a better captain than ponting (not saying that vaughan would captain australia).
    Katich is better than Thorpe in my book, Strauss is unproven in comparison to the Australian opening pair which has done the business for years now, Flintoff would replace Katich and not Clarke, and Langer was one of the form batsmen in the world last year and wouldn't be dropped for anyone. He would in fact the be world XI opening partner for Sehwag today, almost without question.

  6. #36
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    Katich is better than Thorpe in my book, Strauss is unproven in comparison to the Australian opening pair which has done the business for years now, Flintoff would replace Katich and not Clarke, and Langer was one of the form batsmen in the world last year and wouldn't be dropped for anyone. He would in fact the be world XI opening partner for Sehwag today, almost without question.
    i'm not necessarily saying that i think that one would be chosen over the other in any of these situations...too many variables. but someone asked who could make way for english players, and i think that half decent cases can be made for the above changes.

  7. #37
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    i'm not necessarily saying that i think that one would be chosen over the other in any of these situations...too many variables. but someone asked who could make way for english players, and i think that half decent cases can be made for the above changes.
    That's pretty much what I was trying to say. I'm not saying player X should be in the side ahead of Y but that all things being equal, the English players I mentioned are up to the 'standard' of the Aussie players.

  8. #38
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat
    That's pretty much what I was trying to say. I'm not saying player X should be in the side ahead of Y but that all things being equal, the English players I mentioned are up to the 'standard' of the Aussie players.
    Its still only 3 or 4 world class players compared to 11

  9. #39
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    There is no way vaughn is in the same class as langer as a batsman.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Pickup
    Wev'e established that you're unabled to talk objectively about England...


    I am talking objextively, its just that the poms are overating themseleves as usual.
    They are a class test team, easily no 2. But there is no doubt the aussies are so much better in every department.
    It wont even be close, infact I can't see England coming any closer than NZ did becasue Aus will play giles better than vettori.

  11. #41
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat
    That's IF their heavy schedule for the last year doesn't knock out a couple of injured players.
    The schedule is very bare though.

    In the 5 months up to the Ashes, we have 2 games with Bangladesh.

    If anything I think it's not enough.
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  12. #42
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinzan12
    If they did they would drop Katich anyway and have Gilly come in at 6 and bring Lee in.
    No, they would not.

    That would leave a tail starting at 7.

  13. #43
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psxpro
    I am talking objextively, its just that the poms are overating themseleves as usual.
    Even though the one person who's actually analysed it and given England a chance is an Aussie...

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox
    thorpe <----> katich
    strauss <----> hayden
    flintoff <----> clarke
    vaughan <----> langer (or any of the above)

    last of these probably most controversial, and langer doesn't deserve to be dropped, but i reckon that vaughan is a better player than langer...and probably a better captain than ponting (not saying that vaughan would captain australia).

    How did you come to the conclusion that Vaughan is a better player than Langer, all the stats point in the other direction.

  15. #45
    Hall of Fame Member age_master's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat
    Flintoff could be considered ahead of Katich, Strauss against Langer, Vaughan could challenge any place in the side, etc. I'm not saying who is better but I'm considering the scenario in the following way; say Flintoff and Katich were both out of the side and it was down to them for one spot, who would win? Out of Strauss and Langer, who would win. Personally I'd pick Langer based on the fact that he's done the business for many years now but as far as raw ability goes, tough choice.

    nah Katich is underrated i would take him over the all rounder (Australia doesn't really need one) Langer is better than Strauss and he bats well with hayden. Waughan? really an opener, but where could you bat him? 5 or 6 i dont think he would do as well down there....
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