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Thread: Best English spinner?

  1. #31
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    The only time England will ever produce "World-beating" spinners is if they either start producing an abundance of spin-friendly pitches or manage to find a high-class wristspinner. But given that wristspin is almost impossible to bowl to county, never mind international, standard, I'll be thanking my lucky stars if it happens.
    Interesting. So in other words, no spinners are any good, if fingerspin is universally useless with covered wickets and wristspin is almost impossible to bowl? Anyway, Harbhajan, Saqlain and Vettori are evidence that fingerspin is still valuable. Dan Cullen, a 20 year old fingerspinner in Australia, just finished taking 22 wickets @ 18 in his last three FC matches in his debut season as well, and you know what Australian pitches are like in terms of giving fingerspinners assistance. It's far from a dead art.

  2. #32
    U19 12th Man 12th Man's Avatar
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    The fact that there are very few spinning english pitches gives the mian reason why there are few quality spinners. But look at warne, the mcg isn't a very good spinning track
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  3. #33
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    if Giles or Croft played at Northlands Road, the only really spin-friendly square in the country, their First-Class averages would probably be in the 27-28 region.

    Rather than the 28.97 Gules has currently?

    Big difference that,
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  4. #34
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Giles' might even be below 27.
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  5. #35
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12th Man
    The fact that there are very few spinning english pitches gives the mian reason why there are few quality spinners. But look at warne, the mcg isn't a very good spinning track
    But Warne's a wristspinner.
    For a wristspinner any track is a turning track.

  6. #36
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    Interesting. So in other words, no spinners are any good, if fingerspin is universally useless with covered wickets and wristspin is almost impossible to bowl? Anyway, Harbhajan, Saqlain and Vettori are evidence that fingerspin is still valuable.
    No, Harbhajan and Saqlain are evidence that fingerspin with a Doosra is even more effective than normal fingerspin on a turning pitch; and they are evidence that even fingerspin with a Doosra is no use on a non-turner - as you'll see by their records on non-turners.
    Vettori, meanwhile, demonstrates the case perfectly - on a turner he's usually a real handful (except during the 4-year period where he had lots of injury problems) and given that they don't abound very often even when you take out the period where he had injury problems his average is still in the early-mid-30s.
    Dan Cullen, a 20 year old fingerspinner in Australia, just finished taking 22 wickets @ 18 in his last three FC matches in his debut season as well, and you know what Australian pitches are like in terms of giving fingerspinners assistance. It's far from a dead art.
    And I hardly think it's likely Cullen will amount to anything. It's possibly just first-season-flattery that happens so often.

  7. #37
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    And I hardly think it's likely Cullen will amount to anything. It's possibly just first-season-flattery that happens so often.
    How can u say that, maybe its true, but its too early to say because from what i can remember i dont think the great shane warne had a superb debut season for victoria back in 1990/91 season it was in his second season in 1991/92 when he impressed the aussie selectors and made his debut againts india. But its too early to say what cullen could become, if he falls away horrible over the next couple of seasons well then i'll accept that comment

  8. #38
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    One rather important difference.
    Warne is a wristspinner, Cullen a fingerspinner.
    Go on then - when was the last time Australia had a good fingerspinner?

  9. #39
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    One rather important difference.
    Warne is a wristspinner, Cullen a fingerspinner.
    Go on then - when was the last time Australia had a good fingerspinner?
    Traditionally, Australia doesn't produce many good fingerspinners. The dynamic has always been that wristspinners come from Australia (O'Reilly, Grimmett, Benaud, Warne etc) and fingerspinners come from England (Verity, Laker, Underwood etc). The last time Australia had a fingerspinner I would consider "good" was probably Tim May, but he was only good, not great. The last time Australia had a "great" fingerspinner was probably never. However, this is irrelevant to Cullen, who I think is a pretty fine bowler. He's not likely to take 500 wickets at 20 in tests or anything, but he's a talent.

  10. #40
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    However, this is irrelevant to Cullen, who I think is a pretty fine bowler. He's not likely to take 500 wickets at 20 in tests or anything, but he's a talent.
    Yes he is a talent, but its too soon to judge him a prdict what kind of future they could have but its an impressive start for the lad and for aussie fans like us, his emergence could argue well for australia for once having a finger spinner that could challenge the world is an intersting prospect

  11. #41
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    Traditionally, Australia doesn't produce many good fingerspinners. The dynamic has always been that wristspinners come from Australia (O'Reilly, Grimmett, Benaud, Warne etc) and fingerspinners come from England (Verity, Laker, Underwood etc).
    Exactly, and that was all well and good in the days when you got loads of fingerspin-friendly pitches in England, but now that it doesn't happen any more it simply results in Australia-produces-good-spinners-England-produce-nothing-ones.
    The last time Australia had a fingerspinner I would consider "good" was probably Tim May, but he was only good, not great. The last time Australia had a "great" fingerspinner was probably never. However, this is irrelevant to Cullen, who I think is a pretty fine bowler. He's not likely to take 500 wickets at 20 in tests or anything, but he's a talent.
    If he's going to be merely as good as Tim May (who took the phenominal total of 75 Test wickets at nearly 35 apiece - and that at just 2.37-an-over) then he's not going to amount to much, given that fingerspinners are no longer allowed to bowl at 2.37-an-over if the conditions don't help them and his average would probably end nearer 40.
    When was the last time an Australian fingerspinner (no, the freak Colin Miller does NOT count) even finished a Test-career with an average under 30, let alone under 27?
    Probably not since the 60s (maybe even before) - which under the circumstances is not very surprising.

  12. #42
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    for a time Bruce Yardley may well have been in the top 2 or 3 spinners in the world
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  13. #43
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    A rather short time.

  14. #44
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    well probaby for 2 or 3 years..maybe more like 2..but still......

  15. #45
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    But still nothing.
    2 years of success does not a good player make.

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