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Thread: One for Richard: Lucky and Unlucky bowlers

  1. #1
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    One for Richard: Lucky and Unlucky bowlers

    taken from cricinfo

    http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/CR...11MAR2005.html

    as many of us suspected, Flintoff has been pretty unlucky with a lot of dropped catches off his bowling (what a that means I dont know..did the ball go to hand,was the 'drop' what many would considered only a half chance etc)

    Those who throw their hands up in dispair at Lee in tests,well maybe he has also been a tad unlucky.

    Also, McGill..he might throw down the odd bad ball or so, but I think a lot of us know (without the aid of stats) that this guy knows how to take wickets,and if lady luck had have been his way a bit more, he may well have done a bit better.

    Poor old Jimmy Anderson..gets some flack..but is it all justified????

    heheheh..and no sign of McGrath!!!!

    No doubt we may see some debate on this one...keep it clean...ding ding..round one!!!
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    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    macgill's luck surely evens out over the long run. he has such a great talent at taking wickets with bad balls, that i don't think he can complain about too many half chances and the like not going his way.

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    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox
    macgill's luck surely evens out over the long run. he has such a great talent at taking wickets with bad balls, that i don't think he can complain about too many half chances and the like not going his way.
    but could the arguement in favour of mcGill not be that he bowls some absolute rippers, doesnt get a wicket, bowls a bad 'un...batsman thinks to himself 'here is my chance'..goes for it too hard or whatever, and gets out.(or something like that)

    If you take that one ball on its own, then yes, he was lucky....take it in the context of all the other stuff, and maybe its not so lucky!!!!
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    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    yes, a point worth making. but i believe that the way that macgill bowls, with the ball drifting and spinning away from the right hander, means that a lot of these "jaffas" that he bowls aren't as threatening as what they look, with batsman easily pulling away from the line of the ball.


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    Hall of Fame Member age_master's Avatar
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    hmm interesting
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    Cricketer Of The Year Mr Casson's Avatar
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    Poor Jimmy Anderson.. he can bowl, I know he can!!

    I BELIEVE, JIMMY!
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    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox
    yes, a point worth making. but i believe that the way that macgill bowls, with the ball drifting and spinning away from the right hander, means that a lot of these "jaffas" that he bowls aren't as threatening as what they look, with batsman easily pulling away from the line of the ball.
    yeah you may well be right....

    as has been said before,what one person thinks is a chance, someone else might not..what one man thinks is a potential wicket taking delivery, the next man might not.
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    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Casson
    Poor Jimmy Anderson.. he can bowl, I know he can!!

    I BELIEVE, JIMMY!
    so do I actually
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    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    but could the arguement in favour of mcGill not be that he bowls some absolute rippers, doesnt get a wicket, bowls a bad 'un...batsman thinks to himself 'here is my chance'..goes for it too hard or whatever, and gets out.(or something like that)

    If you take that one ball on its own, then yes, he was lucky....take it in the context of all the other stuff, and maybe its not so lucky!!!!
    And he turns the ball square which can turn even rank long-hops into deceptive deliveries.

    He is obviously doing something right as he has the best strike rate of any spinner since 1900.

  10. #10
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend honestbharani's Avatar
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    I think MacGill is an under rated bowler. He bowls bad deliveries, yes, but that is because he tries to bowl too many wicket taking deliveries. A very attacking spinner. One thing about him is that he will bowl you two long hops and then bowl a really good leg break and so the batter is usually not prepared for it. That actually makes him doubly dangerous than someone like Warne, who is always at you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    In the end, I think it's so utterly, incomprehensibly boring. There is so much context behind each innings of cricket that dissecting statistics into these small samples is just worthless. No-one has ever been faced with the same situation in which they come out to bat as someone else. Ever.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    so do I actually
    tec doesn't.
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  12. #12
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    From The Numbers Game
    It's commonly assumed that it all evens out in the end a bowler might take a five-for despite bowling poorly, and might go wicketless after a great spell but does it really?
    Man, I do love it on the rare occasion other people notice the rubbish of that assumption.
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    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    tec doesn't.
    erm.......so?
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  14. #14
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    as has been said before,what one person thinks is a chance, someone else might not..what one man thinks is a potential wicket taking delivery, the next man might not.
    However, I'm not too sure about this PWT definition.
    It's so, so hard to define this - just because something has passed the edge doesn't neccesarily mean much - especially given the number of batsmen who sometimes\often play inside the line. Just because it's hit the pad - might have been the same.
    It's so hard to use statistics in the exact deserving in bowling - what about the number of bad deliveries missed, or the edged runs?
    As for the dropped catches, I've done this one before - dropped catches off poor deliveries IS NOT unlucky - it's poetic-justice (bowler-wise, of course - batsman-wise it's still very lucky).
    And as for the old deserving having a Long-Hop smashed to a fielder - doesn't happen often and rightly so.
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  15. #15
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    erm.......so?
    So just pointing-out that more people than not think Anderson in Tests and ODIs to date has been almost exclusively rubbish.
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