Non-whites in SA cricket

[marc71178]

Hasn't been great from 2003 onwards, sadly.

Pre 2003, 62 games, 89 wickets @ 24.87, E/R 4.23, S/R 35.29
2003 onwards, 49 games, 84 wickets @ 21.57, E/R 4.51, S/R 28.67

I think you need to revisit your definitions.

 

[BoyBrumby]

That's one of the ironies of South Africa, often whites (normally Afrikaners) look almost coloured, and nine times out of ten, they are the most racist. The coloureds are a very diverse group, some could almost pass for white, while some look like they are black.

I certainly agree that some players who would've been classified as coloured under the old apartheid system could pass for white; I only knew Gibbs was non-white because he's always spoken of as such. He may well have African antecedents, but he looks white to me.

Some of the old racial classifications sound hideously arbitrary.In his D'Oliveira autobiography Peter Oborne quotes the case of Owen Williams, who played with D'Oliveira in the non-white South African XI that toured Kenya & Uganda in 1958 & briefly played for Warwickshire. After the introduction of the Population Act of 1950, which attempted to divided all South Africans along racial lines, he & 2 siblings were declared coloured, but his mother & 2 other siblings were declared white. This meant he was forcibly seperated from & couldn not legally visit his mother. Oborne notes,

"To this day, Williams cannot speak of this inhuman episode without breaking down in tears"

 

[Neil Pickup]

Yet Tsolekile is actually more of an isolated instance than might first seem.
And it's not as if it hasn't happened in other teams (see Chris Read, Robbie Hart, Ajay Ratra, Kamran Akmal [before yesterday], Prasanna Jayawardene, the list goes on).

None of them have been brought in as direct replacements, dropping better players in the process.

 

[Richard]

Jaywardene replaced Kalu (disappointing as Kalu was, no-one would call Jayawardene better than him).
Ratra replaced Mongia.
Akmal replaced Moin Khan.
Read came in when any fool could tell Jones was the better bat.

 

[Richard]

Pre 2003, 62 games, 89 wickets @ 24.87, E/R 4.23, S/R 35.29
2003 onwards, 49 games, 84 wickets @ 21.57, E/R 4.51, S/R 28.67

I think you need to revisit your definitions.

So 4.51-an-over is now better than 4.23, is it?
How the devil d'you come to that conclusion?
And for the record, what I was referring to was:
Pre-2003: 73 games, ER 4.15, 108 wickets at 23.85, SR 34.4
2003 onwards: 38 games, ER 4.76, 65 wickets at 22.29, SR 28
Any any fool can see that 4.15 is unspeakably better than 4.76.

 

[Richard]

I certainly agree that some players who would've been classified as coloured under the old apartheid system could pass for white; I only knew Gibbs was non-white because he's always spoken of as such. He may well have African antecedents, but he looks white to me.

Some of the old racial classifications sound hideously arbitrary.In his D'Oliveira autobiography Peter Oborne quotes the case of Owen Williams, who played with D'Oliveira in the non-white South African XI that toured Kenya & Uganda in 1958 & briefly played for Warwickshire. After the introduction of the Population Act of 1950, which attempted to divided all South Africans along racial lines, he & 2 siblings were declared coloured, but his mother & 2 other siblings were declared white. This meant he was forcibly seperated from & couldn not legally visit his mother. Oborne notes,

"To this day, Williams cannot speak of this inhuman episode without breaking down in tears"

Well it is a pretty terrible thing to imagine.

 

[Langeveldt]

all i hope is that south africa doesn't turn out to be another zimbabwe it seem's to be on the verge of doing so.

Doubtful.. the SA government at least recognizes the need to champion the needs of all it's communities. They've even tried to encourage white expats to return recently... The application is usually pretty shocking, but all things considered, the place has done quite well for itself..
And Jot, I'm pretty sure the White population is more like 13% to 15% in SA.. Far far higher than ever in Zimbabwe..

 

[Neil Pickup]

Kalu has horrifically underperformed at International level and Jayawardene does have senior centuries to his name.
Mongia was kicked out because of the matchfixing links.
Moin's career has ended
Read v Jones is irrelevant as it's a keeper-batter scenario, plus not a case of usurping

Boucher - Tsolekile was a player in his prime, performing regularly at Intenational standard, replaced by a vastly inferior player. Not corresponding to any of the above.

 

[Richard]

And you've never heard of a player being dropped because the new coach has some odd gripe with him??

 

[username1234]

Where's your proof, you racist Kiwi clown.

No i don't have any proof. but just look at south africa now it's similar to the state zimbabwe was in 20 years ago. And something like 75% of skilled south africans want to leave the country. And plus your govnerment is makeing the country go down. Crime and aids have increased so much after apathaid and those are the main reason's why south african's want to leave.

 

[Langeveldt]

No i don't have any proof. but just look at south africa now it's similar to the state zimbabwe was in 20 years ago. And something like 75% of skilled south africans want to leave the country. And plus your govnerment is makeing the country go down. Crime and aids have increased so much after apathaid and those are the main reason's why south african's want to leave.

Are you an expat South African by any chance? Of the type who cheer the Boks on, then have a good old chinwag about how awful the place is? Apologies if you aren't!

Crime hasn't gone up since the fall of apartheid.. The only difference is it is being reported.. Township crime was largely irrelevant until ten years ago

 

[Neil Pickup]

And you've never heard of a player being dropped because the new coach has some odd gripe with him??

Which has what to do with anything?

 

[username1234]

No iam not an expat but i no plenty.

 

[Langeveldt]

No iam not an expat but i no plenty.

Do you have expat friends? Have you been to South Africa?

 

[username1234]

No not friends but i talk to them . And no i havn't and by the sounds of it i wouldn't want to go.

 

[Langeveldt]

No not friends but i talk to them . And no i havn't and by the sounds of it i wouldn't want to go.

Don't think that is a great loss anyway

 

[username1234]

No i dont think it's GREAT LOSS

 

[marc71178]

So 4.51-an-over is now better than 4.23, is it?
How the devil d'you come to that conclusion?
And for the record, what I was referring to was:
Pre-2003: 73 games, ER 4.15, 108 wickets at 23.85, SR 34.4
2003 onwards: 38 games, ER 4.76, 65 wickets at 22.29, SR 28
Any any fool can see that 4.15 is unspeakably better than 4.76.

You said pre 2003 so I took 31/12/2002 as the cut off.

You need to get this stupid idea that Run Rate is the only criteria for a OD bowler out of your head.

The numbers I posted clearly show his bowling is getting better not worse.

 

[Marius]

Username's incoherent rantings don't even warrant a reply.

 

[Steulen]

Username is a moron, clearly.

I just happened to be in South Africa for four weeks recently, exposing my milky white Dutch skin.

I was deeply impressed by the country's attempts to come to terms with its past and move on. Visit Constitution Hill in Jo'burg and you can't help but be very confident. Visit a Sowetan squatter camp and that confidence goes faster down the drain than hot-curry-induced poo, but a lot of locals assured me that even there things were on the up, despite HIV and crime.

Before my visit, I was very sceptical about 'empowerment' and selecting non-whites before whites. Now I think it's the only way forward for the rainbow nation, because currently the socio-economic differences are still way too big to sustain a stable democracy. So go Prince, Ntini, Zondeki, Tsolekile and whoever else they can come up with and be an example (like it or not).