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Warne blasts Bracewell

anzac

International Debutant
Somerset said:
It's just a shame his contract expires after the 2007 World Cup then. He certainly won't be dumped because of the shocking display this series but the Kiwi test record since he has been named coach is obviously appalling and it doesn't seem to be improving. I can't imagine John Wright becoming involved with New Zealand Cricket again in the near future though.
Bugger!!!!!

Hadn't realised he was under contract for that long - I guess we're stuffed until then.........

oh I'm sure we will do well enough against the middle & lower tier teams, but I can't see us competing with the top teams unless we do some reshaping & not just players..........
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Richard said:
HawkEye's faulty - any fool can see that.
The stumps are superimposed a couple of centimetres to the left of where they should be.
I think you missed my point, and decided to tell me useless information. That or your purposely ignored it.

Sanz fixed that up though. :)
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
anzac said:
Bugger!!!!!

Hadn't realised he was under contract for that long - I guess we're stuffed until then.........

oh I'm sure we will do well enough against the middle & lower tier teams, but I can't see us competing with the top teams unless we do some reshaping & not just players..........
To be fair to Bracewell I really do think the current situation says far more about Mills, Tuffey, McCullum, Sinclair and the like than it does about him.
Not to mention the large chunk taken by just a few vital injuries - Harrs, Oram, Astle.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Sanz said:
Hawkeye may be faulty but claiming that it was changed to favor the home side is really ridiculous.
And frankly the only way I believe anyone could make such a silly comment would be in an emotional state of spontaneity. Ain't like David Lloyd didn't make 2 of the stupidest comments you'll ever hear with the "we flippin' murdered 'em" and "I have my opinions which I have made known to the authorities". Didn't make him a bad coach, just an emotional chap who spoke before thinking (and the reason he spoke was everything to do with why he was such a good coach, as I've appreciated having read Playing With Fire).
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Jono said:
I think you missed my point, and decided to tell me useless information.
I hardly see how the fault in HawkEye is useless information.
It's an incredibly prominent instrument, and yet it has a built-in, standardised error.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Richard said:
And frankly the only way I believe anyone could make such a silly comment would be in an emotional state of spontaneity. Ain't like David Lloyd didn't make 2 of the stupidest comments you'll ever hear with the "we flippin' murdered 'em" and "I have my opinions which I have made known to the authorities". Didn't make him a bad coach, just an emotional chap who spoke before thinking (and the reason he spoke was everything to do with why he was such a good coach, as I've appreciated having read Playing With Fire).
If only those stupid comments didn't occur quite so often. Then you'd have a point.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Like I say - funny how little he made them when he was at Gloucs.
It's just being in charge of a weak and injured team takes it's toll, and often people find themselves under more strain than otherwise.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Richard said:
I hardly see how the fault in HawkEye is useless information.
It is in context to the point I was making. One would like to think that when a discussions is occurring, the topic doesn't take a tangent to something that wasn't beind discussed for no reason. I clearly never claimed Hawkeye to be accurate, and I clearly never said it meant anything.

It seems Bracewell is the one that cares about it, making ridiculous claims that it favours the home side. On top of that, even in the extreme case that it did favour the home side, what possible advantage would it give Australia?
 

anzac

International Debutant
Richard said:
To be fair to Bracewell I really do think the current situation says far more about Mills, Tuffey, McCullum, Sinclair and the like than it does about him.
Not to mention the large chunk taken by just a few vital injuries - Harrs, Oram, Astle.
fair enough re injuries & player shortcomings, but the latter is nothing that we haven't already discussed on this forum several times (and I'd hope that the National selectors and Coach would be at least as observant as we are!!!!)..........

IMO it also suggests that NZL strategy at Test level is perhaps too 1 dimensional - we lack top intnl bowlers = play 5 bowlers & select 2 converted ODI bowlers as part of your 5 man batting lineup..................

it also says as much about the shallow squads exposed at intnl level & perhaps not the best use of their limited resources - Sinclair being a case in point where he has spent most of the season playing out of position, has 1 crappy ODI series v AUS & is dropped from both forms of the game, whereas Macca can screw around for years b4 getting the chop from the Test squad for 1 series only...............

IMO what does say something about Bracewell is the continued failures at Test level (regardless of the continuing run of injuries - which currently must surely eclipse both ENG's run on their Ashes Tour to AUS & the NZL horrors of ZIM / RSA & 2002 AUS series), and how they have failed to even be competitive with this AUS team in either form of the game..............
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Jono said:
It is in context to the point I was making. One would like to think that when a discussions is occurring, the topic doesn't take a tangent to something that wasn't beind discussed for no reason.
Really?
You clearly haven't seen discussions, then.
They take tangents all the time and every time.
How boring would life be otherwise?
On top of that, even in the extreme case that it did favour the home side, what possible advantage would it give Australia?
That people'd not realise they've got the rub-of-the-green with the Umpires?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
anzac said:
IMO it also suggests that NZL strategy at Test level is perhaps too 1 dimensional - we lack top intnl bowlers = play 5 bowlers & select 2 converted ODI bowlers as part of your 5 man batting lineup..................
Sorry, that's what they are doing or that's what you think they should be doing?
it also says as much about the shallow squads exposed at intnl level & perhaps not the best use of their limited resources - Sinclair being a case in point where he has spent most of the season playing out of position, has 1 crappy ODI series v AUS & is dropped from both forms of the game, whereas Macca can screw around for years b4 getting the chop from the Test squad for 1 series only...............
Thing about McMillan is he's always filled his boots when the going's good. Sinclair has rarely done very well, either in or out of position, except for that unbeaten-double vs Pak on the doped pitch, and that one against the modest WI attack on another very flat pitch... it's poor selection to pick him as an opener, but I really would prefer that to wasting Fleming - which he now seems to be about to do in the upcoming matches.
IMO what does say something about Bracewell is the continued failures at Test level (regardless of the continuing run of injuries - which currently must surely eclipse both ENG's run on their Ashes Tour to AUS & the NZL horrors of ZIM / RSA & 2002 AUS series), and how they have failed to even be competitive with this AUS team in either form of the game..............
Believe me, NOTHING can eclipse those! I've never seen anything like it. Though New Zealand in general always seem to suffer worse than anyone else - England were particularly bad from mid-2001 to late-2003 - but NZ have been suffering since, what, 2000\01 on that horror Southern African trip.
I don't think the failure to compete with Australia and England in the Test-matches says much except that there aren't currently an enormous amount of quality players knocking around. That fact had been disguised for quite a while (you read my article on the merits of England beating New Zealand in 2004, didn't you...?) and Bracewell I think was just unlucky to take-over almost at the precise point where the Test results started going downhill.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Richard said:
Really?
You clearly haven't seen discussions, then.
They take tangents all the time and every time.
How boring would life be otherwise?
Why do it when I've asked you a specific question? For sh*ts and giggles?
Richard said:
That people'd not realise they've got the rub-of-the-green with the Umpires?
Ah yes, so its not only the umpires that are helping out the Aussies. Its now the channel 9 team, and/or whoever else is in charge of Hawkeye.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Jono said:
Why do it when I've asked you a specific question? For sh*ts and giggles?
Just to make sure no-one could possibly run away with the idea that HawkEye wasn't faulty.
Ah yes, so its not only the umpires that are helping out the Aussies. Its now the channel 9 team, and/or whoever else is in charge of Hawkeye.
I said I think it's likely where?
I just pointed-out that there would be an advantage in the extremely unlikely event that the HawkEye was being tampered with.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Richard said:
I said I think it's likely where?
I just pointed-out that there would be an advantage in the extremely unlikely event that the HawkEye was being tampered with.
Apologies for the inclination in my post that you believed it to be true. I concede that point.

However I still believe that the tampering of Hawkeye would have very little effect, in fact no effect to the performance of either teams. For years commentators have been biased when it comes to decisions made on the field. Ian Smith made it damn clear that he believed Vettori was hard done by during the NZ/Aus series in Australia when he was in the commentary box (which I agree with), and most commentators no matter where theyr'e from have shown tendencies to favour teams, especially when the game is close. Now biased commentary has the 'ability' to cover up poor decisions, and I'm damn sure that has zero effect on the performance of the teams, whether the sides are favoured by the umpiring or not. A tampered hawkeye would do no different.

Its almost as if Bracewell believed that the so-called 'tampering' of Hawkeye somehow resulted in NZ playing poorly on the field, because the umpires decisions were being 'covered up' (when they clearly weren't anyway).
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
To those watching it's almost invariably incredibly obvious what a poor decision is.
There has never been any instances where Snickos or The Mat has got anything wrong, and instances where they're inconclusive are exceptionally rare. Most lbws don't really need HawkEye, either. The one thing it tends to help with is the height.
Of course it can't affect New Zealand's performance, but it can affect reflections on their performances - if they've been found to be hard-done-by they'll get a bit more sympathy than if they haven't.
 

Black Thunder

School Boy/Girl Captain
Bracewell is struggling with coaching a struggling team - never a good sign of someone as an individual. Especially if Richard, how you say when he was coaching succesfully in county cricket he was having a great time of it all - it's easy when the going is good.

Admittedly the cattle he is working with doesn't help him but some of the comments he comes out with are just stupid beyond comprehension.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Black Thunder said:
Bracewell is struggling with coaching a struggling team - never a good sign of someone as an individual. Especially if Richard, how you say when he was coaching succesfully in county cricket he was having a great time of it all - it's easy when the going is good.

Admittedly the cattle he is working with doesn't help him but some of the comments he comes out with are just stupid beyond comprehension.
And no other (good) coaches have ever come out with stupid comments, have they?
 

Black Thunder

School Boy/Girl Captain
Richard said:
And no other (good) coaches have ever come out with stupid comments, have they?
very few have that have come out with the quality and quantity of JB's.

Of course everyone says stupid things, but this guy takes the cake.

And we've been subject to Kevin Sheedy. One of the great coaches, who's been in the AFL for 20 years and has made some quite strange post-match comments - probably the most perplexing was mentioning aliens having some sort of effect on his team (Can't remember the comment exactly - was about 5 years ago, but i think it was when he's team beat the opposition by some un godly amount)
 

Scallywag

Banned
Richard said:
Yet like Michael Jackson, he doesn't exactly insulate himself against them, does he?
No he doesent and why should he, its their peoblem not his. He can live his life the way he wants and dosent need to hide himself so that people that are jealous of him cant take pot shots at him all the time.

Also your Michael Jackson analogy is way off the mark and shows what lengths people will go to muddy the waters when talking about Warne.
 

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