India Or Pakistan

[PAKMAN]

begins to wonder what was this thread all about

[tooextracool]

Originally Posted by C_C

If the have the proper tools and attitude, then yes they do- which most dont.
Performance is not a criteria for potential because those two are fundamentally different things and inversely related- more the performance, less the 'potential' factor.
DUH!

no its not, how many times do i have to say it though, performance is the criteria for potential to 'greatness'. you simply cannot claim that any bowler can be an all time great based on absolutely nothing.

Originally Posted by C_C

He has the height of Kapil, Pollock and is barely an inch or two shorter than Hadlee.
And if YOU watch more cricket, you will realise that your assertion is ridiculous.
In his debut match in OZ, Pathan's fastest was 83-ish mph with average of 81mph.
During PAK series he averaged 84ish with top delivery in the 87-88mph range.
During first test against AUS, he averaged 85-86mph and his fastest delivery was 144.8kph which is just a shade under 90mph.
During the bangladesh series his average speed in the first test was 85mph with top speed of 88mph...2nd test he was 84mph average and 87mph highest....
You are obviously commenting based on the last test with PAK where he struggled to reach 80mph, owing to injury ( he was injured right before the series and hasnt bowled competitively for a whole).

well done with the watching then.....pathan and 85 mph, you really are a joker.
and please, pollock in his prime was bowling in the mid- high 80s, which was when he was effective on any wicket, now hes just restricted to bowling well on seamer friendly wickets,because hes too slow. and thats despite the fact that he has 10 times the accuracy of pathan. dev to was much much faster for most of his career.

So get your facts straight.

Originally Posted by C_C

Much better average ?

Pathan minus BD is 42-ish( i forget-its up in this thread). White is 37+...oh yes thats much better.sheesh.
More matchwinning performances ? debatable but well duh... onehas 3x the experience than other...who do you think has more matchwinning performances ? conversely, White has more pathetic displays than Pathan as well..

you really cant read can you?
we were talking about simon jones, not craig white, because you claimed that pathan could get into the current england side. and please ahole 5 runs less than pathan, makes him easily better, and thats despite the fact that he was bowling with injury for most of it.

Originally Posted by C_C

Really ? who ? Fraser,Caddick,Gough and sporadically Headley apart, the 3rd/4th spot was usually a bastion of the bowlers i named above. And through the 90s, ENG played more tests without Fraser-Caddick-Gough than other way around...that automatically opens up one place for consideration with or without spinner.
And i made a passing observation. If you think it doesnt prove anything, why the feck are you arguing ?

im arguing at the foolishness of your claims really.
you still arent smart enough to realise that the 4th spot was competed between the spin bowlers, not between the pacers. because at any point in the 90s england had pace bowlers with far better averages than the spin bowlers, but because they needed the variety especially on pitches that looked like they were going to be turners, they picked a 4th spinner. pathan wouldnt have replaced a spinner, in the same way that bowlers like dominic cork, headley etc didnt, even though they had better averages.

Originally Posted by C_C

Yes Injury played a crucial part but even when playing, white was mostly off color and ordinary.

because you've watched so much of his career havent you? so off colour was he that he was instrumental in the victory in pakistan.

Originally Posted by C_C

I said almost every bowler- Saqlain is a distinct oddity as in he has degressed over the few years but even then, Saqlain was a MUCH better bowler a couple of seasons INTO international cricket than at the time of his debut.. But yes, Sami has added new balls to his delivery since he made debut- during his debut he could barely move the ball and had no inswinger to speak of....now he still bowls shyte but he has an inswinger and an outswinger.

you clearly have no clue what you are talking about do you? sami has been stagnant throughout his career, which is why hes never looked like taking wickets. and saqlain, really only a fool would say that hes got worse. rather he stayed stagnant throughout his career, except that people now know where his doosra is coming from, and have gotten more adept at playing him, while his skills have stayed the same. its a simple theory really, the ones that improve go on to become very good bowlers usually, while the ones that dont remain distinctly average and usually get dropped.

Originally Posted by C_C

I've said WHY i consider Pathan to be better- since you dont have a clue about the concept of POTENTIAL, its like trying to make a donkey understand calculus- pointless and futile.
And yes, Pathan has better inswinger, yorker and bouncer than White. Particularly the inswinger(to the righties) and yorker.

you fool, anyone can say that someone has potential, its quite ludicrous. i could say that sami has potential too, even though hes absolute garbage. you have no facts at all, face it, performance is the only thing that gives you FACTS. until you have that dont go on blabbering about all the FACTS you have because you have none. and if you say that he has a better yorker, in swinger and bouncer than craig white, then you've got absolutely everything wrong about pathan. pathan couldnt trouble the worst of batsmen with his bouncer. and have you ever even seen a craig white in swinger or a yorker? probably not givent that you've never even watched him bowl.

Originally Posted by C_C

As far as i see, you have some nerve disputing the opinions of Imran,Waqar,Wasim,Kapil and Reid to Pathan's POTENTIAL...

wow a few people said that pathan has potential....brilliant. did they all say that he has the potential to become an all time great too?
please people can say whatever they want, the number of people who jumped the gun about anderson becoming an all time great and harmison really were innumerable. and thats despite the fact that those guys actually performed something!

Originally Posted by C_C

changing the tune are we ?

i said that almot every bowler improves since debut empirically while relatively they may be going backwards/forwards/staying stagnant...
But almost every bowler is empirically better since debut than previous.

then you are a fool if you think improving marginally makes a bowler any more effective than he used to be. my point is that pathan needs SIGNIFICANT improvements not minor ones, which has been my point alll along. if he improves marginally hes going to go the same way that several other bowlers have gone before- down the drain.

Originally Posted by C_C

?
You make no sense there...yes they are proven great players and some of them are excellent at identifying talent- and you are contradicting what they are saying.

And yes, Reid was a potential great but that has nothing to do with what he did/didnt accomplish at the international level- achievements do not define the posession of potential. All it means is whether you have fulfilled or wasted or exceeded your potential.

and as ive said 1 million times you can only consider someone to be a potential all time great, if and only if they've actually done something. your claims such as pathan will replace anybody in the england side 5 years from now is simply stupid given what pathan has accomplished in his career so far.

Originally Posted by C_C

Au contraire. You are the one clueless here, since you dont even know the definition of potential. To be considered a potential great, you need to posess the tools that other greats did at same time or tools you need to be great. Pathan clearly has that. Pathan has excellent control for his level of experience and age- control is something you get with dollops of practice and like i said- check his figures- OZ apart, he has less than 3rpo against almost every opposition in tests... especially in this era when most bowlers get clobbered for over 3rpo. And yes..Pathan has a gem of a bouncer- he shook up inzy in PAK and the delivery he bowled to get Razzaq in PAK was a topclass bouncer..

rubbish he barely even caused any problems to inzy with that bouncer, and then got hammered by him. you really need to understand the difference between potential to be a good bowler and potential to being an all time great. for him to jump the line ahead of bowlers whove actually done something like kaspa, gillespie, flintoff, vaas etc and be said to be potentiall all time great is ludicrous.

Originally Posted by C_C

by and large, ER is the biggest indicator to accuracy. Ofcourse, to an extent it depends on the aggressiveness of the batting team.
And Zaheer on the whole DID NOT bowl as accurately as Pathan did...his first spell was very accurate but his second and third spell were codswallop in terms of accuracy.

you really dont watch any cricket do you? pathan was largely rubbish throughout the test match, he never really looked remotely close to threatening any batsman.

Originally Posted by C_C

reverse ?
craig white ?
That is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. I am yet to see an english bowler get controlled and consistent reverse swing apart from Gough-that too he does sporadically.
And White could swing it but he swung it less but Pathan has a much better inswinger than White.

I REST MY CASE. you've obviously not watched craig white bowl, ever. to say that craig white couldnt swing the ball would be like saying that mcgrath isnt accurate.
read some of the reports from his performances in the sub continent in 2000....
"White, the Yorkshireman, effectively and deceptively changed his pace. He also succeeded in making the ball reverse swing because he bowled faster than most of the pacers. The most impressive thing about White was that he made the batsmen play rather than wasting his energy in wayward deliveries."
watch the deliveries that got razzaq out in both the 1st and 2nd test of the series in pakistan which were both fine reverse swinging deliveries. watch the entire spell after lunch on the last day of the final test which was instrumental in destroying pakistan and was perhaps the best craig white has ever bowled.
to say that white could only bowl outswing, when he was by and large an inswing bowler who bowled from wide of the crease makes you look even more foolish, especially for someone who thinks he knows more about cricket post 92 than me. watch any of the games against the WI in 2000, and tell me he couldnt bowl inswing please.
he couldnt bowl a yorker, of course, which explains why he bowled what is widely renowned as the ball of the summer when he knocked brian laras leg stump out of the ground first ball at the oval?
whats your next claim now? white was a largely medium pace?

Originally Posted by C_C

He has some tools that most great pacers have/had. Ofcourse he isnt a finished product yet....but you like i said a few times before, know diddly squat about bowling if you equate inswing,bouncer,control and yorker to 'everything'.

so what else does he need? he can swing the ball both ways, he has the bouncer, he has the control and the yorker, he has the intelligence. youd think that hed at least be causing a few problems and averaging below 40 if he had all of that. ive seen bowlers whove had half of that and still been more successful.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by tooextracool

i seriously doubt it. if pathan bowled the way he has been so far in his career for england, hed been dropped by now.

I'm pretty confident he'd have been a bit more effective if he'd bowled in proper English conditions.
Not if he'd bowled in most of the conditions that have actually prevailed.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by PAKMAN

begins to wonder what was this thread all about

Y'know, it's remarkable.
And so another is added to tec's list of massive, massive multi-quote confrontations...
Even I might have lost heart by now... respect to tec and C_C.

[Mecnun]

So then do you guys reckon Kaneria is a potential all-time great or not ?

Pathan has potential and if he applies himself he may well become a good test bowler and if he continues improving then subsequently a great bowler. However Pathan is not great yet and it cannot be stated that he has the potential to be great since he first needs to fullfill his potential to become a good bowler. Agreed he is young and has played limited test cricket but to label one a potential great at this stage is perhaps a tad premature given the number of factors that can influence his career in the coming years, he ha snot done anything so far to deserve the label of a potential great. I would go so far as to say no bowler can be considered a potential great until first he proves himself a good bowler then carries on in teh same vein to become a great bowler. Just my tupence.

[C_C]

TEC, you are a moron of the highest order- offence intended.
I have every single game of Pathan's except BD series from DVDs, webcasts and shareware.....i can bet you 100 bucks that his top speed during the OZ series was 89.9mph with ave. speed during the first test in the high 80s. Mid-high 80s ave. against Pakistan. Check with Eddie whatzizname if you dont believe me- the guy who catalouges bowling speeds.
or pay ICF a visit and people will quote you the average speed of his spells....
Pathan over OZ in OZ till end of BD was consistently 84-85mph bowler with series where he was pretty fast.
So next time you wanna argue, get your facts straight.
Oh and another thing- get your facts straight about ENG bowlers. atleast 1/3rd of the time the 3rd bowling option was one of those i named and spinners played for approximately 60% of ENG matches through the 90s.....that makes 40% from the list i've named.
Like i said, get your facts straight.

As regarding to your long piece of garbage, all i can say is attend an english course and learn some english. You seem to miss the fundamental definition of Potential and you seek to justify potential with accomplishment which is a dichotomy in itself.

As per white goes, he swung it decently but he had less lateral movement than Pathan...as per reverse swing goes- read my lips: not a single english bowler apart from Darren Gough knows the ABCs on how to reverse a ball. Late swing and reverse swing are two totally different things but i wouldnt expect an idiot like you to know.
White getting reverse swing is just about as laughable as someone saying McGrath bowls offspin.


I have zero time to repeat myself endlessly to retards. Get back to me when you get educated and know the meaning of the word 'potential'. Over and out.

[tooextracool]

Originally Posted by C_C

TEC, you are a moron of the highest order- offence intended.
I have zero time to repeat myself endlessly to retards. Get back to me when you get educated and know the meaning of the word 'potential'. Over and out.

really insults are only the sign of a lost argument, you know it. go ahead with the insults as long as you want, i wont bite. and obviously i have no idea what potential to greatness is, so much so that someone has already posted that they agree with what i said.

Originally Posted by C_C

I have every single game of Pathan's except BD series from DVDs, webcasts and shareware.....i can bet you 100 bucks that his top speed during the OZ series was 89.9mph with ave. speed during the first test in the high 80s. Mid-high 80s ave. against Pakistan. Check with Eddie whatzizname if you dont believe me- the guy who catalouges bowling speeds.
or pay ICF a visit and people will quote you the average speed of his spells....
Pathan over OZ in OZ till end of BD was consistently 84-85mph bowler with series where he was pretty fast.
So next time you wanna argue, get your facts straight.

i have, and i can assure you that he didnt bowl in the mid 80s. perhaps you should actually watch those dvds instead of claiming about things you know nothing about. even pathan has talked about how he needs to improve his pace, because even he knew that he wasnt quick enough.

Originally Posted by C_C

Oh and another thing- get your facts straight about ENG bowlers. atleast 1/3rd of the time the 3rd bowling option was one of those i named and spinners played for approximately 60% of ENG matches through the 90s.....that makes 40% from the list i've named.
Like i said, get your facts straight..

OMG SERIOUSLY CAN YOU READ? AT ALL? anything?
where have i said that spinners didnt play for england? i said that more often than not they were the 4th bowlers, largely because the bowling needed a bit of variety, not because they had better averages than the pace bowlers in domestic cricket.

As regarding to your long piece of garbage, all i can say is attend an english course and learn some english. You seem to miss the fundamental definition of Potential and you seek to justify potential with accomplishment which is a dichotomy in itself. and spinners made about 85% of your list, not 40%

Originally Posted by C_C

As per white goes, he swung it decently but he had less lateral movement than Pathan...as per reverse swing goes- read my lips: not a single english bowler apart from Darren Gough knows the ABCs on how to reverse a ball. Late swing and reverse swing are two totally different things but i wouldnt expect an idiot like you to know.
White getting reverse swing is just about as laughable as someone saying McGrath bowls offspin..

"White's ability to reverse swing the white ball late in an innings is a very useful weapon."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...es/1786665.stm
"Craig played well in India in the winter, making his first Test hundred, and although he had a few injuries that affected his bowling, he is now back to fitness and bowling well again.
We feel his ability to reverse swing the ball could be useful if the Lord's wicket is as flat as it was against Sri Lanka whilst Dominic will give us another option if the wicket is more seamer-friendly." ~ david graveney
" Extra bounce accounted for Chris Nevin, White’s reverse swing for McCullum and Fleming."~http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...220127,00.html
". His bowling relies on a muscular shoulder action and plenty of reverse swing at a decidedly nippy pace which he struggled to maintain as injuries took their toll" ~ cricinfo profile
"While White keeps a nagging length and is a classy exponent of reverse swing with the old ball, Flintoff is extremely aggressive and likes to pin batsmen on the backfoot." ~ http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030226/sports.htm

so all those sources are obviously wrong about craig white arent they? yes clearly laughable, the idea that craig white could bowl reverse swing

[C_C]

really insults are only the sign of a lost argument, you know it. go ahead with the insults as long as you want, i wont bite. and obviously i have no idea what potential to greatness is, so much so that someone has already posted that they agree with what i said.

In this case, it is trying to teach a donkey how to do calculus.

i have, and i can assure you that he didnt bowl in the mid 80s. perhaps you should actually watch those dvds instead of claiming about things you know nothing about. even pathan has talked about how he needs to improve his pace, because even he knew that he wasnt quick enough.

how can you assure me that ? He said he needs to improve his pace and if he got upto Akram's pace of 88-90mph stuff he would be deadly...but his normal speed is 84-86mph and like i said, if you got the cajones, take the bet.
Pathan's fastest delivery is 89.9 mph delivery and his opening spell against AUS in 1st test had atleast 15 balls that crossed 87mph barrier.
Your assurances mean nothing because like i said, i know very well what speed Pathan bowled at during which series.
Afterall, there are religious psychophants going around assuring us of armageddon, arnt there ?
Sheesh.

As regarding to your long piece of garbage, all i can say is attend an english course and learn some english. You seem to miss the fundamental definition of Potential and you seek to justify potential with accomplishment which is a dichotomy in itself. and spinners made about 85% of your list, not 40%

Oh the irony.
The moron cant even quote properly....heh.

OMG SERIOUSLY CAN YOU READ? AT ALL? anything?
where have i said that spinners didnt play for england? i said that more often than not they were the 4th bowlers, largely because the bowling needed a bit of variety, not because they had better averages than the pace bowlers in domestic cricket.

3rd and 4th bowler spot combined(since ENG played one spinner at best 99% of the times they actually played spinners), Pathan would make the grade atleast 80% of the time. Cork,Caddick,Gough and Fraser didnt play together as much as you think.

"White's ability to reverse swing the white ball late in an innings is a very useful weapon."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cri...les/1786665.stm

I always find it amusing when English commentators talk about reverse swing...they are singularly the most clueless about it. And like i said, you depend on articles, i will depend on what i SEE. White didnt have a clue in hell how to reverse the ball...he occasionally got late swing...which is an entirely different gamut than reverse swing.

We feel his ability to reverse swing the ball could be useful if the Lord's wicket is as flat as it was against Sri Lanka whilst Dominic will give us another option if the wicket is more seamer-friendly." ~ david graveney

The only englishman i EVER saw reverse the ball was Gough and that too sporadically without much control. Rest dont have a clue about it. Afterall, Imran Khan, one of the forefathers of reverse swing said so pretty much.

Find me an aricle from a non-englishman of some repute that talks about wihte reversing....go on.

And like i said, even when he wasnt injured, he was AT BEST, ordinary. But then again, overhyping players in England-in any sport- isnt a new thing is it ? Flintoff the new botham,Owen the new Ronaldo/Pele, Henman almost equal of Sampras on grass....the list goes on......

[masterblaster]

Good god, talk about an overanalytical quotefest!

*Backs away from thread slowly*

[C_C]

TEC i am waiting.
100 dollars wager.
ifran's opening over against AUS in IND had 15 or so deliveries over 86mph and top speed was 89.9mph.

Are you willing to back up all that shyte-talk ?

[tooextracool]

Originally Posted by C_C

In this case, it is trying to teach a donkey how to do calculus.

because clearly everyone else is wrong and you are right. you with your limited knowledge of cricket.

Originally Posted by C_C

how can you assure me that ? He said he needs to improve his pace and if he got upto Akram's pace of 88-90mph stuff he would be deadly...but his normal speed is 84-86mph and like i said, if you got the cajones, take the bet.
Pathan's fastest delivery is 89.9 mph delivery and his opening spell against AUS in 1st test had atleast 15 balls that crossed 87mph barrier.
Your assurances mean nothing because like i said, i know very well what speed Pathan bowled at during which series.
Afterall, there are religious psychophants going around assuring us of armageddon, arnt there ?
Sheesh.

wow he bowled one ball at 90 mph, give him a medal. his overall pace is what matters, which was in the low 80s and still is.

Originally Posted by C_C

Oh the irony.
The moron cant even quote properly....heh.

well done in ignoring the point though, which makes you look even more foolish each time you ignore arguments that so clearly prove you wrong.

Originally Posted by C_C

3rd and 4th bowler spot combined(since ENG played one spinner at best 99% of the times they actually played spinners), Pathan would make the grade atleast 80% of the time..

OMG THIS IS INSANE!!!!
WHAT PART OF PACE BOWLERS CANT REPLACE SPINNERS BECAUSE SPIN BOWLERS PROVIDE VARIETY DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

Originally Posted by C_C

Cork,Caddick,Gough and Fraser didnt play together as much as you think.

and even those who did play somewhat consistently in the english side such as tudor, mullally, white, headley, and even anderson all average less than him. let me hear of these place bowlers who played more than 10 games and averaged more than pathan.

Originally Posted by C_C

I always find it amusing when English commentators talk about reverse swing...they are singularly the most clueless about it.

as opposed to you, who knows absoulely nothing about cricket. obviously chief of england selectors david graveney has no clue about whether a bowler can reverse swing it or not. as of course do geoff boycott and ravi shastri who have countless times mentioned in commentary that he can reverse swing the ball, shastri in particular.

Originally Posted by C_C

And like i said, you depend on articles, i will depend on what i SEE. White didnt have a clue in hell how to reverse the ball...he occasionally got late swing...which is an entirely different gamut than reverse swing.
.

clearly you have no clue what you are talking about. you are blind, forget about you seeing anything. if 2 million people said that craig white reverse swung the ball you'd still claim that they were biased and knew nothing about reverse swing. you havent watched craig white at all, clearly only someone who has no idea abt what hes talking about would say that he primarily bowled outswing, when he was a renowned inswinger who bowled from wide off the crease.

Originally Posted by C_C

Find me an aricle from a non-englishman of some repute that talks about wihte reversing....go on.

so apparently all english people dont know anything about reverse swing dont they?stop being a little prat,you have been proved wrong, ive shown you countless articles, even the cricinfo profile(which i doubt was written by an englishman) to prove that you are a fool. instead of continuing to make a mockery of yourself, you'd do a better job just accepting losing the argument and leave with some grace. if you really are so curious why not start a poll asking people on this forum whether craig white got the ball to reverse or not?

Originally Posted by C_C

And like i said, even when he wasnt injured, he was AT BEST, ordinary. But then again, overhyping players in England-in any sport- isnt a new thing is it ? Flintoff the new botham,Owen the new Ronaldo/Pele, Henman almost equal of Sampras on grass....the list goes on......

amazing isnt this? this post seems to indicate a hatred towards englishmen in general, as opposed to you having a knowledgeable argument about cricket on the forum. even more amazing is that you claim that englishman overhype players when people like you have been calling pathan the next akram and comparing him to all the other all time greats, even though hes NEVER EVER done anything in his entire career.

[tooextracool]

and just to make you look even more stupid.....heres an article from tony cozier after the WI tour in 2000.
"White was a revelation, consistently generating more pace than anyone from a strong body action and creating mayhem with his reverse swing."
http://statserver.cricket.org/almana...e=alm;alm=6989

[honestbharani]

I think Pathan can become a great. But, like someone else pointed out here, he has to become good first. I agree with CC that Pathan has shown the potential to be an all time great, but we will have to wait and see.

po·ten·tial    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (p-tnshl)
adj. 
Capable of being but not yet in existence; latent: a potential problem. 
Having possibility, capability, or power. 
Grammar. Of, relating to, or being a verbal construction with auxiliaries such as may or can; for example, it may snow. 

n. 
The inherent ability or capacity for growth, development, or coming into being. 
Something possessing the capacity for growth or development. 
Grammar. A potential verb form. 
Physics. The work required to move a unit of positive charge, a magnetic pole, or an amount of mass from a reference point to a designated point in a static electric, magnetic, or gravitational field; potential energy. 
See potential difference. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English potencial, from Old French potenciel, from Late Latin potentilis, powerful, from Latin potentia, power, from potns, potent- present participle of posse, to be able. See potent.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
po·tential·ly adv. 

[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. 


po·ten·tial (p-tnshl)
adj. 

Capable of being but not yet in existence; latent.
n. 
The inherent ability or capacity for growth, development, or coming into being. 
The work required to bring a unit electric charge, magnetic pole, or mass from an infinitely distant position to a designated point in a static electric, magnetic, or gravitational field, respectively. 
The potential energy of a unit charge at any point in an electric circuit measured with respect to a specified reference point in the circuit or to ground; voltage. 


Source: The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. 


Main Entry: 1po·ten·tial
Pronunciation: p&-'ten-ch&l
Function: adjective
: existing in possibility : capable of development into actuality —po·ten·tial·ly /-'tench-(&-)lE/ adverb 


Source: Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc. 


Main Entry: 2potential
Function: noun
1 : something that can develop or become actual 
2 a : any of various functions from which the intensity or the velocity at any point in a field may be readily calculated; specifically : ELECTRICAL POTENTIAL b : POTENTIAL DIFFERENCE 


Source: Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc. 


potential

adj 1: existing in possibility; "a potential problem"; "possible uses of nuclear power" [syn: possible] [ant: actual] 2: expected to become or be; in prospect; "potential clients"; "expected income" [syn: expected, likely] n 1: the inherent capacity for coming into being [syn: potentiality, potency] 2: the difference in electrical charge between two points in a circuit expressed in volts [syn: electric potential, potential difference, potential drop, voltage]

^^That was the definition of the word 'potential'. And the guys reading this, make your own decision on whether Irfan can be called as 'potential' great or not.

[C_C]

Capable of being but not yet in existence

Thank you bharani...obviously this dont doesnt get it......he is seeking to justify potential by existance ( ie results to backup the claim) when the very definition doesnt allow it.

because clearly everyone else is wrong and you are right. you with your limited knowledge of cricket.

Like i said boy, you either put up or shut the FACT up. You think my knowledge is limited, then you debate me and show me wrong.
So far you've been proven (courtesy bharani) to not even know the MEANING of the word 'potential', let alone prove me wrong.

wow he bowled one ball at 90 mph, give him a medal. his overall pace is what matters, which was in the low 80s and still is.

What ? chicken now ?
you assured me that he doesnt bowl anything but low 80s. Like i said, put your money where your mouth is and bet me. Irfan's average speed during the PAK series in PAK was 84-85mph and against OZ in IND was 85-86mph.
either bet me or STFU.

well done in ignoring the point though, which makes you look even more foolish each time you ignore arguments that so clearly prove you wrong.

if someone here knew know to operate the quote function properly then maybe i would UNDERSTAND the point, instead of seeing a jumble of my message and yours.

OMG THIS IS INSANE!!!!
WHAT PART OF PACE BOWLERS CANT REPLACE SPINNERS BECAUSE SPIN BOWLERS PROVIDE VARIETY DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

Learn some english. Pronto. Would do you a lotta good. Didnt say Pathan could replace a spinner.... i said that
1. The pacers from that group i mentioned earlier were bulk representatives for one of the bowling spots in the 90s and Pathan could've replaced them.
2. Eng didnt ALWAYS play a spinner and besides, playing a spinner with 37something average just for the sake of variety is remarkably retarded.

as opposed to you, who knows absoulely nothing about cricket. obviously chief of england selectors david graveney has no clue about whether a bowler can reverse swing it or not. as of course do geoff boycott and ravi shastri who have countless times mentioned in commentary that he can reverse swing the ball, shastri in particular.

Actually i do ammend that. Boycott does know what he is talkin about... cant say that about the rest when it comes to reverse swing..i still remember PAK vs ENG early 90s when they had ludicrous idea of reverse swing.
Oh and FYI, I am as qualified as ANYBODY in cricket- if not more- to talk about reverse swing. I can explain it to you in extreme detail. Not that it is a big thing. Anybody who has done a course or two in intermediate and advanced fluid dynamics can explain reverse swing with far more accuracy and authenticity than Graveney or other hoboken commentators can dream of.
If you wish to take me up on this, open another thread and i will explain it to you in layman's terms.

clearly you have no clue what you are talking about. you are blind, forget about you seeing anything. if 2 million people said that craig white reverse swung the ball you'd still claim that they were biased and knew nothing about reverse swing. you havent watched craig white at all, clearly only someone who has no idea abt what hes talking about would say that he primarily bowled outswing, when he was a renowned inswinger who bowled from wide off the crease.

The highlighted part is blatant LYING. Show me where I've said that.
All i said is Pathan's inswinger to the rightie is far more potent than White's. Quiete a few batsmen around the globe seem to back up that opinion and most of them have faced Pathan.

so apparently all english people dont know anything about reverse swing dont they?stop being a little prat,you have been proved wrong, ive shown you countless articles, even the cricinfo profile(which i doubt was written by an englishman) to prove that you are a fool. instead of continuing to make a mockery of yourself, you'd do a better job just accepting losing the argument and leave with some grace. if you really are so curious why not start a poll asking people on this forum whether craig white got the ball to reverse or not?

FYI, bulk of crickinfo profiles are done by countrymen or englishmen. Check that up.
And no, most englishmen dont know jack about reverse swing. There is nothing racist or biassed against that- i have years or experience seeing many english commentators and journos have ludicrous idea to what is reverse swing and even as to recently,most cant tell the difference between late swing and reverse swing.
And comming from a halfbaked brain like you, who doesnt even know the meaning of the word 'potential', i expect nothing less.

amazing isnt this? this post seems to indicate a hatred towards englishmen in general, as opposed to you having a knowledgeable argument about cricket on the forum. even more amazing is that you claim that englishman overhype players when people like you have been calling pathan the next akram and comparing him to all the other all time greats, even though hes NEVER EVER done anything in his entire career.

Thou art too thin skinned. If i dig through BBC archives, i can show you NUMEROUS instances of even english journos admitting that the english media is too quick to overhype a newbie.
Harmison the new Ambrose.
Michael Owen the new Ronaldo.
On how Henman could match Sampras on Grass...
list is countless.
And i have NEVER said he is the new Akram....the most i've alluded to is that his bowling reminds me of Akram's which isnt an exgaggeration, given similarity in their movement(though Akram had more variety than just about anyone) and his yorker is almost a carbon copy of Akram's.Hell even Akram himself said that Irfan reminds him of his younger self...so how the feck are you to challenge that.

[marc71178]

Originally Posted by C_C

TEC i am waiting.
100 dollars wager.
ifran's opening over against AUS in IND had 15 or so deliveries over 86mph and top speed was 89.9mph.

Unless he bowled 9 or more no balls or wides then I'd take that bet.