Rule Clarification

[Queenslander]

Can anyone remember a game (pretty sure it was West Indies vs Australia) where an Australian batsman was caught off a no-ball, didn't hear the umpires' call and proceeded to walk off the ground. The opposition then removed the bails to run the batsman out.

At some stage (not sure whether the batsman had left the ground) a decision was made to recall the player based on the fact that he did not hear the umpires no-ball call.

I umpired a schoolboys game on the weekend when a similar thing happened. The bowler bowled an over the waist full toss caught by first slip, I called a no-ball, the batsmans' weight had taken him forward as a result of avoiding the full toss and the first slip then threw down the stumps with the batsman well out of his crease. The batsman hadn't heard the no-ball call and did not attempt to run or get back in his crease. I gave him Not Out based on 'fair play" and the incident referred to above.

Any thoughts on my decision or details of the game I referred to ?

 

[social]

Happened to Dean Jones in the West Indies - although I am not sure whether he was recalled in this instance.

In any event, the batsman was re-called because he was not actually attempting a run - he was walking off the ground.

 

[kof98]

Can anyone remember a game (pretty sure it was West Indies vs Australia) where an Australian batsman was caught off a no-ball, didn't hear the umpires' call and proceeded to walk off the ground. The opposition then removed the bails to run the batsman out.

At some stage (not sure whether the batsman had left the ground) a decision was made to recall the player based on the fact that he did not hear the umpires no-ball call.

I umpired a schoolboys game on the weekend when a similar thing happened. The bowler bowled an over the waist full toss caught by first slip, I called a no-ball, the batsmans' weight had taken him forward as a result of avoiding the full toss and the first slip then threw down the stumps with the batsman well out of his crease. The batsman hadn't heard the no-ball call and did not attempt to run or get back in his crease. I gave him Not Out based on 'fair play" and the incident referred to above.

Any thoughts on my decision or details of the game I referred to ?

I thought a batsman could be stumped/runout off a wide or no-ball

 

[Top_Cat]

http://www.lords.org/cricket/lw_0000000050.asp

Law 24

15. Out from a No ball
When No ball has been called, neither batsman shall be out under any of the Laws except 33 (Handled the ball), 34 (Hit the ball twice), 37 (Obstructing the field) or 38 (Run out)].

And then to be run-out, you have to be attempting a run.

 

[Top_Cat]

And the incident referred to above was in the West Indies in 1991 when Dean Jones was bowled by Courtney Walsh off a no-ball. He started walking off and then when he was informed by Border at the non-striker's end that it was a no-ball, he tried to make his ground again but Carl Hooper took the stump out of the ground whilst holding the ball. The umpire then incorrectly gave him out (i.e. you cannot be given run-out off a no-ball UNLESS you're attempting a run which Dean Jones, having been bowled was obviously not doing).

 

[Scallywag]

LAW 27
7. Batsman leaving his wicket under a misapprehension
An umpire shall intervene if satisfied that a batsman, not having been given out, has left his wicket under a misapprehension that he is out. The umpire intervening shall call and signal Dead ball to prevent any further action by the fielding side and shall recall the batsman.



Hope that helps.

 

[savill]

Hypothetical situation here - Say I'm fielding in a bat-pad position, batsman's back foot drags out of his crease and I throw down the stumps, what then? The rule to me seems very vague and contradicting. How come you cannot run a batsman out if he isn't attempting a run, yet be stumped not attempting a run?

 

[Queenslander]

Thanks Scallywag - that was the rule I was looking for and I could be wrong here but I'm reasonably confident it was introduced after the Dean Jones incident (thanks also to those who reminded me of who it was).

In regards to "not attempting a run", yes you can be out "run out" if not attempting a run.

Law 38 (Run out) states :-
1. Out Run out
(a) Either batsman is out Run out, except as in 2 below, if at any time while the ball is in play
(i) he is out of his ground
and (ii) his wicket is fairly put down by the opposing side.

(b) (a) above shall apply even though No ball has been called and whether or not a run is being attempted, except in the circumstances of Law 39.3(b) (Not out Stumped).

 

[Scallywag]

Thanks Scallywag - that was the rule I was looking for and I could be wrong here but I'm reasonably confident it was introduced after the Dean Jones incident (thanks also to those who reminded me of who it was).

In regards to "not attempting a run", yes you can be out "run out" if not attempting a run.

Law 38 (Run out) states :-
1. Out Run out
(a) Either batsman is out Run out, except as in 2 below, if at any time while the ball is in play
(i) he is out of his ground
and (ii) his wicket is fairly put down by the opposing side.

(b) (a) above shall apply even though No ball has been called and whether or not a run is being attempted, except in the circumstances of Law 39.3(b) (Not out Stumped).

The laws seem to go in circles on this one but I believe if a batsman does not try to regain his crease when a no ball is called he will be out run out, if he trys to regain his crease after a no ball then it is not out.

Or more simply after playing his shot he must immediately return to his crease or risk being run out.

 

[Scallywag]

Hypothetical situation here - Say I'm fielding in a bat-pad position, batsman's back foot drags out of his crease and I throw down the stumps, what then? The rule to me seems very vague and contradicting. How come you cannot run a batsman out if he isn't attempting a run, yet be stumped not attempting a run?

I think the not attempting to run rule is used when the batsmen walks down to remove something from the pitch or to retrieve his bat or situations like that.

 

[cbuts]

the way i understand the rule, is that u cannot be run out off a no ball, if u thought u were out. so eg u got caught and started to walk off, u cant be run out. but they way u described that game on the weekend i believe he should of been out, as he was not walking off, he just didnt get back into his crease.

tahts how i read ur post anyway