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Fielding side rankings ODI"s ??

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
social said:
Although I wouldn't go to his extremes, Richard is sort-of right.

With the exception of Clarke, Symonds (who are the 2 best IMO), and Hussey, the Aus fielding standards have deteriorated markedly.

That being said, they are still at least as good as anyone else but can no longer rely on that part of their game to separate themselves from the rest.
To include Symonds and Clarke in the same sentence is a serious, serious insult to the former.
Clarke is a very poor fielder of times; just because he makes some spectacular stops and has hit the stumps lots recently doesn't mean he hasn't dropped and misfielded some absolute sitters.
And I'd hardly say Hussey's played enough to count towards anything.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
SpeedKing said:
Wot about Dinesh Karthik i am scratching my head trying to figure out wot is wrong with him.
Not in ODIs - leave him for the Test-matches.
Karthik for Tests, Dhoni for ODIs - shame both of them ****ed up against Bangladesh. :(
 

JASON

Cricketer Of The Year
My ranking for whatever its worth-

1. Australia
2. New Zealand
3. England
4. South Africa
5. SriLanka (very unpredictable in terms of fielding can be good or bad on any given day, but definitely Dyson,Whatmore emphasis on fielding takes them ahead of the other subcontinent Teams. The exception is Nuwan Zoysa, who uses his legs only, to stop 4s when fielding near the ropes and is very unkeen to bend down to pick up the ball near the ropes for fear of passing wind. :laugh: :laugh: )
6.India
7. West Indies
8. Pakistan
 
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Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Wot about Dinesh Karthik i am scratching my head trying to figure out wot is wrong with him.
His batting has been a big disappointment (clips of him in action suggest he can't bat for toffees), but worse, his wicketkeeping has been suspect- he goofs up once in eight chances. As a batsman, he can't hit the ball! Fans closer to him say he can attack, but he's been as defensive as some misfits who have played for India in the recent past.
Karthik for Tests, Dhoni for ODIs - shame both of them ****ed up against Bangladesh.
Dhoni is shaky beind the stumps, but Times of India reports say that he kept to Kumble quite well, while Parthiv struggled keeping to offie Powar.

Neither even come close to Mumbai's Vinayak Samant. He is the best gloveman in India. Many of Mumbai's best bowling performances have come with Samant contributing a lot more in a season than Parthiv ever has in all his years as an India regular. On keeping alone, the choice is obvious- it has to be Vinayak Samant.
The exception is Nuwan Zoysa, who uses his legs only, to stop 4s when fielding near the ropes and is very unkeen to bend down to pick up the ball near the ropes for fear of passing wind
He may be good in catching positions and should be tried in slips.
 

cbuts

International Debutant
at the moment the aussies catching is leaving a lot to be desired. going back to nz test series anyway, alot of catches have gone down. ground fielding though aussie are the best, closly followed by us kiwis
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Arjun said:
His batting has been a big disappointment (clips of him in action suggest he can't bat for toffees), but worse, his wicketkeeping has been suspect- he goofs up once in eight chances. As a batsman, he can't hit the ball! Fans closer to him say he can attack, but he's been as defensive as some misfits who have played for India in the recent past.Dhoni is shaky beind the stumps, but Times of India reports say that he kept to Kumble quite well, while Parthiv struggled keeping to offie Powar.

Neither even come close to Mumbai's Vinayak Samant. He is the best gloveman in India. Many of Mumbai's best bowling performances have come with Samant contributing a lot more in a season than Parthiv ever has in all his years as an India regular. On keeping alone, the choice is obvious- it has to be Vinayak Samant.
Hmm - at 32 he's hardly an ideal debutant.
And I personally think it's far more conceivable to iron-out the flaws in Karthik and Dhoni's wicketkeeping (certainly I've seen both 'keep and I've certainly seen plenty who've looked worse - Alec Stewart in his early career, for instance, and look at how good he eventually became) than it is to improve the batting of someone with First-Class and List-A-OD averages in the mid-20s.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Who cares how old he is? He still is the best keeper in the country!

Batting ability is immaterial. For every keeper who can bat, there may be four bowlers who can bat, and that odd batsman who can bowl. As long as the two bowlers most capable of taking 20 wickets between them play, the other bowlers can be picked on batting ability. Even if they're just average, they can't be far worse than the specialists and they can score runs. At present, there are two in-form all-rounders among the season's top wicket-takers in the domestic matches. Any average bowling lineup looks twice as strong when boosted by superior fielding- look at the current NZ side.

But if the wicketkeeper is not the best and is prone to making one goof-up in six chances and the beneficiary happens to be Gilchrist, Flintoff, Ponting or Martyn, that batsman will make the fielding side pay and rub their nose into defeat. Look at this scene- it happened in Bangalore. Ponting was dropped by keeper Dravid on three, after which he massacred the Indian bowlers, demolishing any hopes of a victory. More than a year before, in a Test in Guyana, Deep 'The Drop' Dasgupta dropped Hooper on zero- King Carl made 233.

The best of bowling sides struggle with mediocre fielding. The Pakistanis had a very strong attack, with Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib and Saqlain, even Mushtaq, yet never won too many tournaments because the fielding was sub-par. They were defeatd a few times by the Lankans, a superior fielding side despite the latter's inferior bowling.

In a batting side with Tendulkar, Laxman, Dravid and Sehwag, the batting should not be a problem, as long as partnerships are built. Even with a first-class average in the mid-20's, if he builds partnerships, it is more than enough, and . But there is no way any wicketkeeper, who is not a hundred percent effective, can make a playing XI- it is a major risk.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Yes, quite true - but wicketkeeping is something that can be learnt very effectively - look at Alec Stewart.
In the last 3 or 4 years of his career, you hardly ever saw him make a mistake, certainly not drop a catch (excepting that ghastly game at Lord's in 2003 where he eventually injured an eye) - yet early in his career he was an Irongloves.
I never saw Rod Marsh live, but I'm reliably informed that early on in his career he wasn't The World's greatest gloveman. And he became superb.
Keith Andrew, who some reckon to be in the top 5 wicketkeepers of all-time, played just 2 Tests thanks to the fact that Godfrey Evans and, later, Jim Parks were superior batsmen. Bob Taylor, another magnificent wicketkeeper, occasionally lost his place due to the superior batting of Paul Downton and David Bairstow.
If you're modestly talented as a wicketkeeper, with dedication and attention, you can become a very, very competant performer - you don't need to be the most natural at the job.
Wicketkeeping is not like batting - it's not a simple art, of course it's not - but it's sure a hell of a lot simpler than bowling. And hence batting ability comes into the selection of wicketkeepers far more than it does with bowlers.
With bowlers I'll always just pick the best 4 or 5 bowlers going around (unless, obviously, you have a seriously good all-rounder) and then teach them as much as I can about batting. As long as they keep getting good figures, they stay in the side.
 

cbuts

International Debutant
i hate this age debate thing. if your good enough your young enough. ambrose wlash hadlee, all played into or close to their 40's
 

Blaze

Banned
I think it realy is a toss up between NZ and Aus in terms of the best fielding side but ppl are going with Aus as number 1 because they are the best side in the world. I would have to say NZ are the best fielding side because just from watching both sides recently NZ make less errors and are inivative..( introducing the relay throw as an attacking ploy to cut down runs )
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
MoxPearl said:
are u serious !?

Reasons for those odd choices lang ?
Of course I'm serious, regardless of cricketing success, i always assumed that it was a given that there was little to chose between Aus, Zim and SA in the fielding stakes

Fielding? Zimbabwe have always set the standard, with guys like Stuart Carlisle in the side who is one of the most under rated fielders around. Taibu is one of the best glovemen in cricket. Post rebel 15 I havent seen them play live, so can't really comment..

South Africa have always been good as well, they outfielded England spectacularly this winter in ODI cricket.. Although not as good as they used to be without Rhodes in the side..

Australia are always up there with the best with Ponting and Symonds usually spectacular..
NZ also, Fleming is top drawer..

The rest are obviously impressive, thats a given in ODI cricket, but England carry too many slowcoaches, and Jones lets them down glovewise, and the West Indies too many liabilities, especially if they bring back Reon King..

Whats so weird about that?
 

Scallywag

Banned
Blaze said:
I think it realy is a toss up between NZ and Aus in terms of the best fielding side but ppl are going with Aus as number 1 because they are the best side in the world. I would have to say NZ are the best fielding side because just from watching both sides recently NZ make less errors and are inivative..( introducing the relay throw as an attacking ploy to cut down runs )
NZ introduced the relay throw :D :D :D the poms introduced that when bradman was playing because the filders coudent get the ball back without three or four relays. :D :D
 

Blaze

Banned
Scallywag said:
NZ introduced the relay throw :D :D :D the poms introduced that when bradman was playing because the filders coudent get the ball back without three or four relays. :D :D
No i don't think you get my version of the relay throw. A fielder from the deep throws flat to a man half way between the deep and the stumps and then that guy throws flat to the keeper. It is something NZ employeed just before WC2003 because they believe it is quicker than just throwing straight to the keeper because you get flatter throws.
 

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