Most underrated and overrated players in the world?

[social]

Lovely to see Hayden and Lee CONTINUING to do well!

Enjoy Richard and TEC!

 

[Fiery]

TEC and Richard. You guys need to don the gloves and sort it out in the old fashioned way.

 

[Richard]

no its not. but the period that included the series against NZ and the WI was. but of course since you missed half of the rest of the series, and consider the other half to be seamer friendly wickets, anomalies and what not, it only leaves those 2 poor series, which you desperately cling on to to suggest that mcgrath isnt a great bowler.

No, I do nothing of the sort.
I just don't use the figures he's got - I use watching the strokes played to get those figures (and where I don't watch I read).
And I see that if his figures are good - game-by-game, innings-by-innings, and totally disregard it when you try to bring series into it - it's usually down to poor strokes.
And if the pitch offers seam or uneven bounce (ain't like that's often happened) I know that he's more than capable of bowling well so I don't look much at it.

 

[Richard]

as explained by his fabulous ER of 5.0

No, of 4.38.

no i cant, but i can damn sure take out games that were on complete seamer friendly tracks, which this game most certainly was on.

Despite the fact that he's played on plenty of non-seaming tracks and they're evened-up.

oh shut up, 4.6 is rubbish at any point of your career irrespective of the average.

It is, but someone can be forgiven a rubbish economy-rate if his average is exceptional, and 18.83 is exceptional.

had he not played on those seamer friendly wickets in the world cup, his average would have been as disgraceful as his test average.

You can't know that, the rest of his meaningful ODI-career numbers so few games. And we all know what a bad idea comparing Tests and ODIs are, don't we?

it was 1 series! on a bunch of seamer friendly wickets, and even then when you remove performances against clearly inferior sides and clearly seamer friendly wickets its still poor. as i said earlier, he was rubbish before the wc and rubbish after, he was simply what you claim bichel was, peaked at the right time before displaying his mediocrity again.

So if you pick-and-choose, finding excuses for almost everything, you can find he's a poor bowler.

maybe you need to learn to type, instead of coming up with random garbage whenever you feel like and trying to get away with it. foolish comments such as the australian side bar hayden arent especially good players of spin, was simply insulting the likes of martyn and katich, and its even more insulting when it comes from people like you who'd never watched either of them play spin.

Despite the fact I've watched Katich play spin several times, and I've also spoken to people who've watched him play and also said he's not great against it.
As supposed to you who've watched him play 3 innings.

 

[Richard]

Lovely to see Hayden and Lee CONTINUING to do well!

Enjoy Richard and TEC!

Wow - a whole 2 games.
1 in Hayden's case - given that his innings in the 1st game was a very, very poor one indeed.

 

[Richard]

TEC and Richard. You guys need to don the gloves and sort it out in the old fashioned way.

Nah, that'd be pointless.
Beating each other up wouldn't change who was right and who was wrong.

 

[marc71178]

Maybe that's because his Test-average is actually 42.55

No it is not - check the record books.

 

[marc71178]

Keep ducking, it won't change the fact that it's fact.

What's fact?

 

[Richard]

No it is not - check the record books.

I've checked them:
See?

 

[Richard]

What's fact?

That McGrath when bowling on flat, non-seaming wickets, gets almost all wickets through poor strokes.
Of course, you've still got the "he forces the poor strokes" which I can't disprove.
But there's no getting around the poor strokes bit.

 

[marc71178]

I've checked them:
See?

Yes, and I ask where these big innings are.

 

[marc71178]

Of course, you've still got the "he forces the poor strokes" which I can't disprove.

You tried and failed to disprove it, because it's a fact.

 

[Richard]

Yes, and I ask where these big innings are.

I think you've posted this in the wrong thread.

 

[Richard]

You tried and failed to disprove it, because it's a fact.

No, no-one can prove anything either way - you think he's forced it, I don't.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

That McGrath when bowling on flat, non-seaming wickets, gets almost all wickets through poor strokes.
Of course, you've still got the "he forces the poor strokes" which I can't disprove.
But there's no getting around the poor strokes bit.

It's not his fault what stroke the batsman plays.

A wicket is a wicket whether the stumps have been skittled by an inswinging yorker or it's been smashed and taken brilliantly by deep square leg.

 

[social]

That's settled it!

Richard has me convinced, via the sheer weight of compelling argument, that Glenn McGrath is the luckiest bowler, nay sportsman, that ever walked the planet.

From this moment on, I shall only respond to my chosen name, "The Enlightened One."

 

[marc71178]

No, no-one can prove anything either way

So the evidence of just about anyone to play International Cricket isn't enough for you then?

 

[Fiery]

So the evidence of just about anyone to play International Cricket isn't enough for you then?

No wonder you two guys have over 12,000 posts each. I reckon about 10,000 of them have been when arguing with each other.

 

[Son Of Coco]

No, no-one can prove anything either way - you think he's forced it, I don't.

Ok, but he bowls in an area where a lot of batsmen will be lured into playing a false stroke at some time or other. Doesn't get a lot of runs off him, bowls in the corridor, extremely accurate, takes wickets through getting just enough movement to keep a batmans guessing combined with abovementioned accuracy. I'm afraid that, to me, that sounds like a very good bowler - not a very lucky one.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Because he can't make the batsman fuc*-up.
He can only try to encourage it, and I don't believe he deserves credit for it.

Of course he can Richard....but I digress, we've had this argument before. I have no doubt that you and your brother have already carried out rock solid statistical research whereby your brother picked 10 highlighted names out of a bunch of 11 and have thereby proven that McGrath is indeed the luckiest bowler in the world. Now, if Harmison can get nearly as lucky and the other bowlers win lotto we'll have a ripping series come the summer.