Brett Lee in test team

[Richard]

And a bloody good bowler too!

Depends.
If you're talking about international cricket, no, he's not.

 

[Richard]

And I believe he is. We shall see.

Really? He's "been a different bowler to his last Test-series" plenty of times before... though I'll admit I've never seen you write it.

 

[Richard]

I have to admit that when I read "tempting fate" comments like Neil's and TEC's, I half hope that somebody gets injured (not seriously) for the Ashes, Lee plays, and blows the Pom top order away, just to watch the hair-pulling and anguish.

You guys (and certain other Lee supporters) have been hoping for that for God-knows-how-long.
I've lost count of the number of "I'll enjoy see you eat-humble-pie" comments I've got down the last 4 years... I just love thinking of them with every Test that makes me look more and more right, personally.
I'd not go so far as to say Lee playing would give us a chance, but sure as hell it'd give us a chance that's improved slightly on if the attack contained four of Gillespie, Kasprowicz, Warne, McGrath, Inness, Clark (S), Bracken... and a few others.

 

[garage flower]

South Africa, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, England, New Zealand... though only maybe.
Sorry, I quadroupled what you asked for.

Other than England Richard, I'm not sure about that. I think that New Zealand, in the absence of Shane Bond, are crying out for someone like Lee.

Can't think of more than 2 fit seam/pace bowlers who'd be certain picks ahead of Lee in any of the other sides you mention.

 

[Richard]

Tuffey, Martin and Oram are all no more abysmal than him on a flat pitch.
On a green seamer, they're all fifty times the bowler he is.
If Bond were in the side Lee'd not get close to a look-in, because Bond is even more deadly still on a green seamer.
On flat pitches, so far, he's been mostly very poor but he has had his moment (playing a huge part in the win in West Indies).

With regards Pakistan, anyone who thinks Lee is half the bowler Shoaib, Shabbir, Saqlain and Danish are, well... they're delusional.

South Africa: Pollock and Nel are impossibly better, Ntini is better if not by a million miles, and if anyone thinks Lee is better than Terbrugge, Hayward, Ngam, Willoughby, Langeveldt, Klusener and several others, then well...

Sri Lanka... Vaas is a million times better, in Sri Lanka just about any half-decent spinner is better than Lee anywhere, Zoysa is far better, and there are all sorts of mediocre seamers like Maharoof, Malinga, a couple of Fernandos, and many others, who're about as poor as Lee. I don't think we need mention Murali.

 

[garage flower]

Tuffey, Martin and Oram are all no more abysmal than him on a flat pitch.
On a green seamer, they're all fifty times the bowler he is.
If Bond were in the side Lee'd not get close to a look-in, because Bond is even more deadly still on a green seamer.
On flat pitches, so far, he's been mostly very poor but he has had his moment (playing a huge part in the win in West Indies).

I'd be interested to find out how many NZ posters would pick Tuffey, Martin or Oram ahead of Lee.

I thought he bowled some pretty menacing spells the last time I saw him play test cricket at home to India. Didn't get much success, but that was due, in no small part, to the brilliance of the Indian batsmen.

On the basis of that same series, I certainly wouldn't pick Bracken ahead of Lee. I don't think he moved one ball off-line.

 

[Richard]

Nope, but he's infinately more accurate.
And he undoubtedly swings the ball sometimes (notably when it's white) and he's kind of an Australian Willoughby - could be incredibly good if he swung the ball... and it's kinda inexplicable that he doesn't.

 

[Richard]

I'd be interested to find out how many NZ posters would pick Tuffey, Martin or Oram ahead of Lee.

If any of them have watched the three bowl on green pitches I'd certainly back them to prefer them if the pitch was green.
Look at Tuffey and Oram's records on green pitches, FCOL.

 

[garage flower]

Nope, but he's infinately more accurate.
And he undoubtedly swings the ball sometimes (notably when it's white) and he's kind of an Australian Willoughby - could be incredibly good if he swung the ball... and it's kinda inexplicable that he doesn't.

You need a bit more than accuracy in test cricket and if the criteria for test selection is performances with the white ball then Lee compares well with anyone (though I note Bracken has a superb ODI record).

Obviously he'd be incredibly good if he swung the ball and retained his accuracy. Not that simple though is it.

 

[garage flower]

If any of them have watched the three bowl on green pitches I'd certainly back them to prefer them if the pitch was green.
Look at Tuffey and Oram's records on green pitches, FCOL.

No idea what FCOL means (nothing personal, but I hate these message board/text message type abbreviations), but I realise Tuffey and Oram have very good records in New Zealand. The entire Kiwi bowling corps looked pretty ordinary in England though.

 

[twctopcat]

Of course, Lee's saved his best for England in taking 22 wickets at 46.90 so far in his 8-Test career, hasn't he?
In fact England have dealt with him better than anyone - though Pakistan are damn close.

I wasn't referring to his past, i was merely saying that people keep harping on about how lee sucks in tests, and if he was going to succeed against anyone, it will prob be england knowing our luck.

 

[tooextracool]

150 ks plus & with outswing - anyone else in the world bowl that?

Please name one other team where Brett Lee would not play.

hint: its one of the 2 teams in the coming ashes series.

 

[tooextracool]

I'd like to see TEC face Lee and then bowl to Hayden

because that makes a difference?
obviously lee and hayden are far better players than i am, but thats never been my argument.
quite frankly rikki clarke would take your bowling to the cleaners and then destroy you with the ball, but would that change the fact that hes one of the worst players to play for england?

 

[tooextracool]

Tuffey, Martin and Oram are all no more abysmal than him on a flat pitch.
On a green seamer, they're all fifty times the bowler he is.
If Bond were in the side Lee'd not get close to a look-in, because Bond is even more deadly still on a green seamer.
On flat pitches, so far, he's been mostly very poor but he has had his moment (playing a huge part in the win in West Indies).

Sri Lanka... Vaas is a million times better, in Sri Lanka just about any half-decent spinner is better than Lee anywhere, Zoysa is far better, and there are all sorts of mediocre seamers like Maharoof, Malinga, a couple of Fernandos, and many others, who're about as poor as Lee. I don't think we need mention Murali.

oh get of it, its no secret that i dont rate lee either but to say that people like zoysa, martin etc are better bowlers than lee is simply insane. let alone saying that maharood whos never had a half decent series in his entire life is as good as lee. AFAIC, lee would easily make the NZ and SL side but that only speaks volumes of how poor pace bowling is today. and vaas is 1 million times better than lee with his oh so brilliant test bowling average of 30 is just as stupid. hes better yes, but if vaas were aussie he wouldnt even come close to making the aussie side.

 

[tooextracool]

Nope, but he's infinately more accurate.
And he undoubtedly swings the ball sometimes (notably when it's white) and he's kind of an Australian Willoughby - could be incredibly good if he swung the ball... and it's kinda inexplicable that he doesn't.

certainly explains why his bowling average is inredibly higher than lee's doesnt it? AFAIC if bracken had bowled from both ends for ever ball of that series against india, he still wouldnt have got more wickets. how in the hell he gets wickets at the domestic level i'll never know.

 

[social]

Nope - not many others manage to bowl with such extraordinary waywardness either.

South Africa, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, England, New Zealand... though only maybe.
Sorry, I quadroupled what you asked for.

So you're saying that Lee would not get into these sides.


Bwuhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

 

[social]

You guys (and certain other Lee supporters) have been hoping for that for God-knows-how-long.
I've lost count of the number of "I'll enjoy see you eat-humble-pie" comments I've got down the last 4 years... I just love thinking of them with every Test that makes me look more and more right, personally.
I'd not go so far as to say Lee playing would give us a chance, but sure as hell it'd give us a chance that's improved slightly on if the attack contained four of Gillespie, Kasprowicz, Warne, McGrath, Inness, Clark (S), Bracken... and a few others.

Richard,

when you start favourably comparing others such as Inness, Clark (s), etc to Lee, it is obvious that you havent seen much Australian cricket this summer.

 

[social]

Tuffey, Martin and Oram are all no more abysmal than him on a flat pitch.
On a green seamer, they're all fifty times the bowler he is.
If Bond were in the side Lee'd not get close to a look-in, because Bond is even more deadly still on a green seamer.
On flat pitches, so far, he's been mostly very poor but he has had his moment (playing a huge part in the win in West Indies).

With regards Pakistan, anyone who thinks Lee is half the bowler Shoaib, Shabbir, Saqlain and Danish are, well... they're delusional.

South Africa: Pollock and Nel are impossibly better, Ntini is better if not by a million miles, and if anyone thinks Lee is better than Terbrugge, Hayward, Ngam, Willoughby, Langeveldt, Klusener and several others, then well...

Sri Lanka... Vaas is a million times better, in Sri Lanka just about any half-decent spinner is better than Lee anywhere, Zoysa is far better, and there are all sorts of mediocre seamers like Maharoof, Malinga, a couple of Fernandos, and many others, who're about as poor as Lee. I don't think we need mention Murali.

This post is a zillions times more biased and a gazillion times more misguided than most you'll read on this forum.

 

[social]

hint: its one of the 2 teams in the coming ashes series.

So Lee would not be picked before:

a. Harmison - fortunately for Aus, England are likely to drop him as he is their only chance of success;

b. Hoggard - mediocre medium pacer that Aus bats are lining up to milk AGAIN;

c. Jones - not as accurate as Lee, doesnt swing the ball, and 10ks slower;

d. etc

TEC, you're bias against Lee continually sees you making ridiculous statements such as this - it's becoming embarassing, particularly as you obviously have not seen him bowls for what, 12 months.

 

[twctopcat]

So Lee would not be picked before:

a. Harmison - fortunately for Aus, England are likely to drop him as he is their only chance of success;

b. Hoggard - mediocre medium pacer that Aus bats are lining up to milk AGAIN;

c. Jones - not as accurate as Lee, doesnt swing the ball, and 10ks slower;

d. etc

TEC, you're bias against Lee continually sees you making ridiculous statements such as this - it's becoming embarassing, particularly as you obviously have not seen him bowls for what, 12 months.

Fair enough you don't agree with the point but why do you make yourself look stupid by exaggerating with that bilge??