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Thread: Fifteen degrees of freedom

  1. #16
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    'baulking', typo in earlier post.

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  2. #17
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat
    On Charlie Griffith, having seen some footage of him bowling, his action seems to resemble the hyper-extension of Shoaib Ahktar than a genuine chuck. Disregarding the opinions of former players, I'd be interested to see what Griffith's testing at the U of WA would have been. I suspect he wouldn't be considered a chucker but more along the lines of Shoaib i.e. an unintentional and non-repairable hyper-extension of his bowling arm which generates a 'whip' and plenty of pace.
    I don't find that remotely inconceivable, what I find odd is that no-one ever noticed any problems initially and then they did afterwards.
    Of course it could be down to the success-complain\fail-don't-bother syndrome, but AFAIK no-one ever said anything about him, players or otherwise, when they first saw him.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdslip
    I think what would have been more sensible is for the ICC to have separated the question of throwing for fast bowlers from the question of throwing for spinners. I think quite different advantages may accrue (or not) in the two cases.
    I don't think you can differentiate just on those grounds, it has to be the same for everyone.
    I'm already worried enough that, where people previously strove for unattainable perfection, they now know that a certain flex is legitimate and may try to go up to the maximum.

  4. #19
    School Boy/Girl Cricketer Greg Blewett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    I don't find that remotely inconceivable, what I find odd is that no-one ever noticed any problems initially and then they did afterwards.
    Of course it could be down to the success-complain\fail-don't-bother syndrome, but AFAIK no-one ever said anything about him, players or otherwise, when they first saw him.

    Actually with Charlie Griffith they did notice, several counties complained of him being a 'chucker' yet the Umpires were told not to call him because of:

    1) racial tension within London at the time

    2) the South African controversy was at its height also


    I could quote large chunks of Truemans & Barringtons books as they both divulge into the matter much further with proof of the umpires being told not to call him as well as his whole bowling style changing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat
    On Charlie Griffith, having seen some footage of him bowling, his action seems to resemble the hyper-extension of Shoaib Ahktar than a genuine chuck. Disregarding the opinions of former players, I'd be interested to see what Griffith's testing at the U of WA would have been. I suspect he wouldn't be considered a chucker but more along the lines of Shoaib i.e. an unintentional and non-repairable hyper-extension of his bowling arm which generates a 'whip' and plenty of pace.

    Chances are you saw footage of Griffith either before or after he was throwing it. As the West Indian cricket board asked him to correct his action after that series.


  5. #20
    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    Theres a guy at college who bowls offies and when he deliberately does his "murali" impersonation (we all have lol), he can turn it square on a flat wicket.. While this is not conclusive at all, its still interesting, and there is little doubt in my mind that Murali would be averaging 37 with the ball if it wasn't for his "issue"..

    Still, the ruling is put in place in order to accomodate Murali, and therefore save face for the ICC, the problem has been eradicated by moving the goalposts.. And the anti-Murali brigade now have to put up and shut up while he goes on messing with batsmen's careers from Colombo to Cairns..
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    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langeveldt
    While this is not conclusive at all
    Exactly...

  7. #22
    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasa
    Exactly...
    No response to the rest of my post then?

    Mind you, I am putting up and shutting up at the moment, like a good little ICC laackey.. So you don't need to respond to that..

  8. #23
    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    My point is, I can't see how you or any one of us can claim to know better than the ICC in this case. Have you done the biomechanical tests yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasa
    My point is, I can't see how you or any one of us can claim to know better than the ICC in this case. Have you done the biomechanical tests yourself?
    I would like to claim that I know better than the ICC in this case. I haven't done the biomechanical test myself but I definitely know more than them about the difference between throwing and bowling a cricket ball.
    Now that they have changed the rules to suit Murali in particular we'll have thousands of little cricketers deliberately throwing the ball in backyards all over Asia, turning the ball square on glass wickets. There will be those who push or go beyond the boundaries of the 15 degree law, at which stage they'll probably either change the rules again so the game resembles baseball or they will admit they were wrong and make the rules stricter again. All this for one man.
    Last edited by Fiery; 15-02-2005 at 08:37 PM.

  10. #25
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    A rhetorical question of that sort is a full toss on the leg side - pretty much everyone who thought the ICC's old rules re. chucking were stupid can claim to know better than them - biomechanical tests or not.

    Re. Murali - I don't know that we should make too much of it, i think the issue is bigger than accommodating one man - or not. Does anyone have a list of people cited by the umpires so far - I wonder if off-spinners are likely to dominate that list.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langeveldt
    and there is little doubt in my mind that Murali would be averaging 37 with the ball if it wasn't for his "issue"..
    Exactly 37?

  12. #27
    Request Your Custom Title Now! honestbharani's Avatar
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    What about the McGraths, the Gillespies and the Pollocks, who were above this 15 degree rule as well? Remember this was done by reputed former cricketers from all over the world, so I don't think there was any bias towards Murali there at all.
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    In the end, I think it's so utterly, incomprehensibly boring. There is so much context behind each innings of cricket that dissecting statistics into these small samples is just worthless. No-one has ever been faced with the same situation in which they come out to bat as someone else. Ever.
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    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery
    I would like to claim that I know better than the ICC in this case. I haven't done the biomechanical test myself but I definitely know more than them about the difference between throwing and bowling a cricket ball.
    I'd like to say that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    What about the McGraths, the Gillespies and the Pollocks, who were above this 15 degree rule as well? Remember this was done by reputed former cricketers from all over the world, so I don't think there was any bias towards Murali there at all.
    They weren't above the 15 degree rule, they were over the 5 or 10 degree rule like basically every bowler.

  15. #30
    Request Your Custom Title Now! honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Baconator
    They weren't above the 15 degree rule, they were over the 5 or 10 degree rule like basically every bowler.
    sorry, I meant to say the old rule....But I was just trying to point out that it is not bias towards anyone in particular.


    BTW, what do u guys have to say about some biomech expert saying that even a steel rod when rotated at the speed of a bowlers' delivery arm continuously for a certain number of times got bent?

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