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Fifteen degrees of freedom

Langeveldt

Soutie
Dasa said:
Exactly...
No response to the rest of my post then?

Mind you, I am putting up and shutting up at the moment, like a good little ICC laackey.. So you don't need to respond to that..
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
My point is, I can't see how you or any one of us can claim to know better than the ICC in this case. Have you done the biomechanical tests yourself?
 

Fiery

Banned
Dasa said:
My point is, I can't see how you or any one of us can claim to know better than the ICC in this case. Have you done the biomechanical tests yourself?
I would like to claim that I know better than the ICC in this case. I haven't done the biomechanical test myself but I definitely know more than them about the difference between throwing and bowling a cricket ball.
Now that they have changed the rules to suit Murali in particular we'll have thousands of little cricketers deliberately throwing the ball in backyards all over Asia, turning the ball square on glass wickets. There will be those who push or go beyond the boundaries of the 15 degree law, at which stage they'll probably either change the rules again so the game resembles baseball or they will admit they were wrong and make the rules stricter again. All this for one man.
 
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thirdslip

Cricket Spectator
A rhetorical question of that sort is a full toss on the leg side - pretty much everyone who thought the ICC's old rules re. chucking were stupid can claim to know better than them - biomechanical tests or not.

Re. Murali - I don't know that we should make too much of it, i think the issue is bigger than accommodating one man - or not. Does anyone have a list of people cited by the umpires so far - I wonder if off-spinners are likely to dominate that list.

- TS
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
What about the McGraths, the Gillespies and the Pollocks, who were above this 15 degree rule as well? Remember this was done by reputed former cricketers from all over the world, so I don't think there was any bias towards Murali there at all.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Fiery said:
I would like to claim that I know better than the ICC in this case. I haven't done the biomechanical test myself but I definitely know more than them about the difference between throwing and bowling a cricket ball.
I'd like to say that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.
 

The Baconator

International Vice-Captain
honestbharani said:
What about the McGraths, the Gillespies and the Pollocks, who were above this 15 degree rule as well? Remember this was done by reputed former cricketers from all over the world, so I don't think there was any bias towards Murali there at all.
They weren't above the 15 degree rule, they were over the 5 or 10 degree rule like basically every bowler.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
The Baconator said:
They weren't above the 15 degree rule, they were over the 5 or 10 degree rule like basically every bowler.
sorry, I meant to say the old rule....But I was just trying to point out that it is not bias towards anyone in particular.


BTW, what do u guys have to say about some biomech expert saying that even a steel rod when rotated at the speed of a bowlers' delivery arm continuously for a certain number of times got bent?
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Aren't they going to being in the 15 degree rule as they scienifically proven that this is the limit that an umpire can see if a bowler is straighten his arm on the field. So in theory the rule hasn't changes just the paramater has gone up as a result of scientific proof.

On another issue i think the doorsa might require a bent arm, when i've tried it in the nets it always feels like i'm chucking it. so i don't bowl it in the game, even tough it is a brilliant bowl and gets most batsmen out. Maybe im bowling it wrong, but neally ever offie that has bowled it has been sighted by the ICC, so their might be something wrong with it.
 

SpeedKing

U19 Vice-Captain
Evertime i try bowling offspin, i chuck and i can feel my arm wobbling every delivery i try. i have also tried bowling legspin and saw myself in the mirror and my arm was totally straight [no suprise Sarwan is the only bowler who doesn't chuck] and of recent i have even developed a wrong 'un without chucking.

Someone stated earlier that offspinners are more likely to chuck and after the tests i have done on myself, he could be right. i personally think the rules should be put back to 10 degress for all so that no one can have an unfair advantage [there is an unfair advantage] and all cheats should either fix up or find another job.

BTW Richard said something about armbrace and i don't know why Murali just doesn't use one of them. i mean i remember him turning it loads with one on [i think it was on Channel 4] so he might as well use one in matches.
 
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marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
The C4 documentary with the brace only served to confuse the issue.

In fact it was pointed out that his arm straightened when bowling the doosra, even with the brace.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
marc71178 said:
The C4 documentary with the brace only served to confuse the issue.

In fact it was pointed out that his arm straightened when bowling the doosra, even with the brace.
I thought the brace was supposed to be a tight fit & rigid?

Anyway the 15 degrees is ridiculous, ICC do all these highly complex tests with massively different bowling styles and techniques and so what do the ICC do? They create a single angle for EVERYONE to conform to. I can see it happening in the future where someone deliberately bends their arm bowling leg-spin (for example) because they know they've got 15 degrees to work with that they're not 'utilising'.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Greg Blewett said:
Actually with Charlie Griffith they did notice, several counties complained of him being a 'chucker' yet the Umpires were told not to call him because of:

1) racial tension within London at the time

2) the South African controversy was at its height also


I could quote large chunks of Truemans & Barringtons books as they both divulge into the matter much further with proof of the umpires being told not to call him as well as his whole bowling style changing.




Chances are you saw footage of Griffith either before or after he was throwing it. As the West Indian cricket board asked him to correct his action after that series.
It's interesting, these two replies seem to contradict each other.
First you say to me Griffith was always a chucker, then you say to Corey he wasn't at first then he became one.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Langeveldt said:
Theres a guy at college who bowls offies and when he deliberately does his "murali" impersonation (we all have lol), he can turn it square on a flat wicket.. While this is not conclusive at all, its still interesting, and there is little doubt in my mind that Murali would be averaging 37 with the ball if it wasn't for his "issue"..

Still, the ruling is put in place in order to accomodate Murali, and therefore save face for the ICC, the problem has been eradicated by moving the goalposts.. And the anti-Murali brigade now have to put up and shut up while he goes on messing with batsmen's careers from Colombo to Cairns..
Which "issue" would that be? His disjointed elbow, or his double-jointed wrist? I can confidently tell you that the elbow that has caused so many problems with people who can't understand their eyes deceiving them hasn't affected his bowling at all - why would it? His wrist, of course, has - but that's no more unfair than Shoaib being able to bowl faster than Mr. X because his arm goes around faster than Mr. X's arm.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
honestbharani said:
BTW, what do u guys have to say about some biomech expert saying that even a steel rod when rotated at the speed of a bowlers' delivery arm continuously for a certain number of times got bent?
That's interesting, I hadn't heard that one.
Was it confirmed, or was it just one of those supposed comments?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
SpeedKing said:
no suprise Sarwan is the only bowler who doesn't chuck
He's not, he's just the only one they never noticed chucking (by the old, false, ideals) - if he does something no-one else has ever done I'll eat not just my computer but the planet Earth.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
marc71178 said:
The C4 documentary with the brace only served to confuse the issue.

In fact it was pointed out that his arm straightened when bowling the doosra, even with the brace.
Really?
What a truly stupid fool he (or she) who designed the brace was, then.
 

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