Cricinfo's bowling designations

[steds]

Spinners aren't catergorised in terms of pace, so why should the quicker bowlers? Why not catergorise them as swing or seam?

 

[Swervy]

remember that these type of categories were originally done when there was no measuring speeds accuratly...these categories were given to bowlers based on perception...some bowlers (marshall springs to mind) may not have been as fast as others through the air,but could really rush the ball through to the batsman faster off the pitch...a speed measurement may not really reflect how fast the ball is pereived by the batsman...

So I dont really think its possible to put definate boundaries on what is fast etc (I know what I mean anyway )

 

[BoyBrumby]

remember that these type of categories were originally done when there was no measuring speeds accuratly...these categories were given to bowlers based on perception...some bowlers (marshall springs to mind) may not have been as fast as others through the air,but could really rush the ball through to the batsman faster off the pitch...a speed measurement may not really reflect how fast the ball is pereived by the batsman...

So I dont really think its possible to put definate boundaries on what is fast etc (I know what I mean anyway )

& there are always the category straddling exceptions like Derek Underwood & Chris Harris anyway!

 

[Top_Cat]

What does it really matter if Channel 9 or Cricinfo call someone one type of bowler or another? I mean, how would you classify guys like Michael Holding or Lillee or Hadlee who bowled off short runs frequently? Is it what the bowler 'generally' bowls or what they're capable of?

If it's capability, McGrath, for example, would have to be rated 'fast' because I've seen him recently top 140km/h but he generally bowls within himself. Jason Gillespie generally bowls in the 130-135km/h range but we all know he's capable of 10km/h more than that. So where do you put him? Mohammed Sami has been clocked in the high 150's yet in the recent series against Australia, he didn't pass 150km/h and only got up in the high 140's a couple of times. So where do you put him?

Was Derek Underwood a fast orthodox left-arm spinner or a medium-pacer who put slight figer-spin on the ball? You could have arguments about whether guys like Anil Kumble bowls fast leg-spin or medium pace with a slight over-the-wrist action. If anyone remembers Tom Moody in his early career, he almost always rolled his wrist on the ball and was only marginally quicker than Kumble yet he was considered medium-pace, not a spinner. And then there's Chris Harris; where would you put him?

As far as I'm concerned, the umpire doesn't tell the batsman what pace the bowler bowls at so it seems somewhat redundant for TV producers to do the same (as well as the above examples where a bowler might be classified as a different bowler on any given day). The only designations that mean anything would probably be right-arm/left-arm pace/off-spin/leg-spin.

 

[BoyBrumby]

What does it really matter if Channel 9 or Cricinfo call someone one type of bowler or another? I mean, how would you classify guys like Michael Holding or Lillee or Hadlee who bowled off short runs frequently? Is it what the bowler 'generally' bowls or what they're capable of?

If it's capability, McGrath, for example, would have to be rated 'fast' because I've seen him recently top 140km/h but he generally bowls within himself. Jason Gillespie generally bowls in the 130-135km/h range but we all know he's capable of 10km/h more than that. So where do you put him? Mohammed Sami has been clocked in the high 150's yet in the recent series against Australia, he didn't pass 150km/h and only got up in the high 140's a couple of times. So where do you put him?

I agree; it doesn't matter a jot. I'm not proud of myself for being bothered by it, but I do have a pedantic streak. A little voice in me that says "I'll think you'll find that..."

That is very exceptional for McGrath. But it's (87mph in old money) only nudging "fast" for me. If that was his stock delivery I would concur, but I would imagine his average speed now is no more than 80-1 mph (128-130kmh in your fancy foreign metric system!). I'd call him a fast/medium.

 

[Top_Cat]

That is very exceptional for McGrath. But it's (87mph in old money) only nudging "fast" for me. If that was his stock delivery I would concur, but I would imagine his average speed now is no more than 80-1 mph (128-130kmh in your fancy foreign metric system!). I'd call him a fast/medium.

It's only really exceptional in terms of what he chooses to bowl. McGrath *could* and has shown in a few games I've personally seen bowl 140km/h+ but he just kicks back a gear generally. He's not busting a gut just to reach that speed is what I'm saying I guess. Someone like Craig White could occasionally get up to 145km/h+ but he was really going flat-out.

And the metric system ain't fancy, it's just logical. I happen to know much of both by virtue of the fact that I was a scientist who had to communicate with people in other similarly backwards countries . You tell me what's more logical:

10 millimetres = 1 centimetre
100 centimetres = 1 metre
1000 metres = 1 kilometre

or

1000 gram = 1 kilogram
1000 kilograms = 1 tonne
1000 tonnes = 1 kilotonne

vs

12 inch = 1 foot (and there are no sub-divisions of an inch other than fractions).
5 280 feet = 1 mile
3 miles = 1 league

or

16 ounces = 1 pound
14 pounds = 1 stone
~ 143 stones = 1 ton = 2000 pounds

And do I really need to bring up fluid ounces/pints/quarts/gallons/bushels/chaldrons???

The biggest bug-bear for me was in dealing with smaller quantitites than an inch/ounce/fluid ounces. They had to be expressed as fractions when dealing with American and British labs and it used to annoy me that they refused to read anything with micrograms/microlitres written on it. Grrrr...........

Errrhmmm.......sorry, bit OT.

 

[BoyBrumby]

And the metric system ain't fancy, it's just logical. I happen to know much of both by virtue of the fact that I was a scientist who had to communicate with people in other similarly backwards countries . You tell me what's more logical:

10 millimetres = 1 centimetre
100 centimetres = 1 metre
1000 metres = 1 kilometre

or

1000 gram = 1 kilogram
1000 kilograms = 1 tonne
1000 tonnes = 1 kilotonne

vs

12 inch = 1 foot (and there are no sub-divisions of an inch other than fractions).
5 280 feet = 1 mile
3 miles = 1 league

or

16 ounces = 1 pound
14 pounds = 1 stone
~ 143 stones = 1 ton = 2000 pounds

And do I really need to bring up fluid ounces/pints/quarts/gallons/bushels/chaldrons???

The biggest bug-bear for me was in dealing with smaller quantitites than an inch/ounce/fluid ounces. They had to be expressed as fractions when dealing with American and British labs and it used to annoy me that they refused to read anything with micrograms/microlitres written on it. Grrrr...........

Errrhmmm.......sorry, bit OT.

Yeah, well you can use facts to prove anything that's even vaguely true!

It's the romance of the old imperial system that I love. We have "strapping six-footers" (not stapping 1 metre 83 centimetrers), pints of beer/milk (not 568 millilitres of same, it just doesn't work: "568 millilitres of lager please, John."), quarter-pounders (not 114 grammers) & Shoaib cracking the 100mph barrier is altogether more evocative than him cracking the 161kmh barrier.

I actually think my reply sounds better if you whistle the tune to The Great Escape whilst reading it!

 

[C_C]

It's only really exceptional in terms of what he chooses to bowl. McGrath *could* and has shown in a few games I've personally seen bowl 140km/h+ but he just kicks back a gear generally. He's not busting a gut just to reach that speed is what I'm saying I guess. Someone like Craig White could occasionally get up to 145km/h+ but he was really going flat-out.

thats merely a question of perception that is due to the purity of one's bowling action. McGrath has a flowing bowling action so he doesnt look to be overworking.
But even the ones with the BEST action(michael holding) get tired after 6-7 overs on the trot.

And could bowl is not the criteria for the designation and neither should it be.
The criteria should be WHAT you bowl.
I am pretty sure a LOT of bowlers nudge the 90mph barrier if they just went haywire and lunged the ball without caring an iota about control or movement.

 

[Redsok]

McGrath should DEFINATELY be Right Arm Medium Fast, not Fast Medium.

McGrath was the definition of Fast Medium. He could have bowled even faster, but he knew his greatest strength.. and abused it. McGrath was also faster than the speed gun ever suggested. He generated pace OFF the bounce after the ball had hit the pitch. Batsmen always got spooked, and boom. There's an edge, before they even realized what the **** just happened


Mohammed Asif had a short career, but he was the same.. just with even more swing and seam control. Except for the unusual surprise bounce that McGrath always got


MEDIUM FAST, is someone like Collingwood, Philander, and so on. Even Kallis, later in his career

 

[Coronis]

So glad this has been resolved after 15 years of agony.

 

[Engle]

Redsok rocks - go get 'em, don't mind the time interval

 

[Red]

It's enlightening stuff.