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Thread: "Gavaskar leads World XI selectors" ... who would you select?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    And the moon is made of cheese.
    ..what kind

    Harmesan

  2. #122
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    Other cricketing drug cheats, such as?
    irrelevant.
    Drug testing should be mandatory in cricket and the fact is Warne is a drug cheat.


    Fine, but the IOC and the IAAF are not sporting bodies associated with cricket, and instead govern over a completely different sporting system with different requirements. The ICC had no such rule in place, so Warne could hardly be held to it. Even if you buy your theory about Warne's intentional taking of a diuretic as a performance-enhancing drug, or to mask them, would you suggest he be punished retroactively with laws put into place after his alleged crime?
    Ofcourse. Retroactive punishment occurs in the legal system of most nations-including yours.
    A killer or a theif caught 20 years after the crime is tried on CURRENT laws, not previous laws. And in many times, a re-appeal is considered for crimes that have been judged previously( either parole for an excessively harsh sentence or re-sentencing for an excessively lenient sentencing).

    And while IOC and IAAF are not technically associated with cricket, it has been recommended many times in the past that cricket should adopt the doping regulations put forth by IAAF like many other sports did. There is no room for drug abuse in cricket.

    Besides, Warne was sentenced by Cricket Australia, an entity it serves, rather than the governing body, like ICC. In MOST other sports, sentenceses are carried out not by the employer but a governing body without any direct relations with the player.
    As such, it is ethically wrong to have a judgement pronounced by a party such as CA, which has vested interests in Warne, as they are his employer. That is a case of judgement pronounced by a biassed party. In no credible legal framework do you see sentencing being carried out by a party that has vested intersts in the guilty party. That is almost derelection of duty.

    Perhaps he took the diuretic for the reason stated (to lose weight to look good on television for his ODI retirement), but would not have if there had been rules in place saying that taking a diuretic would result in a lifetime ban and a removal of statistical records.
    irrelevant.
    Using drugs is not just illegal in sports, it is illegal in the legal framework of Australia. Warne could be charged with a public litigations lawsuit and he would be found guilty in that case.

    Well, what qualifies as a quality attack? The Australian team Kallis faced in 2002/03 is undoubtedly one of the strongest ever fielded, and Kallis was easily the best South African batsman, scoring a very respectable 245 runs @ 49.00 in the away series, and an average 184 @ 36.80 in the home series. In the home series he also took 11 wickets. Since then he has undoubtedly improved as a batsman, but I'm really not sure what you would consider a "quality attack" in that time.
    I can give you several instances of 'quality attacks' but suffice to say that in the las 3-4 years, none of the attacks bar australia have been quality attacks. Over the last 10 years or so, the only attacks that have qualified as 'quality' are Australia, West Indies(till 2000 or so), Pakistan(till 2001 or so) and South Africa(till 2000/01 or so).

    While Kallis did pretty good in the series you mentioned, Kallis has averaged 40+ in only 2 of the 9 series against those attacks.
    And how well one did in one particular series is not the point. How well he did OVERALL is whats of concern, as successes must ALWAYS be balanced with failures to get a complete picture. Kallis is pretty mediocre against quality bowling attacks and i wouldnt include him to face a quality bowling attack like OZ just on the merit of his batting alone.


    Yes, the fact does remain that you have absolutely no proof that he took performance enhancing drugs
    irrelevanant. The FACT is Warne got off very easily compared to the standard fate of people found taking a masking agent.
    If you have a masking agent in your system, you are AUTOMATICALLY GUILTY of taking BANNED SUBSTANCES and therefore eligible for far severe penalties.

    What you are arguing is similar to saying that while someone's fingerprints are there on a knife and is the most recent DNA sample, there is no way to prove that he/she actually stabbed the dead person so therefore is not guilty of murder.
    I would ask you to take your reasoning to any standard courtroom and provide some comic releif.
    Last edited by C_C; 04-02-2005 at 11:43 PM.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Warne could be charged with a public litigations lawsuit and he would be found guilty in that case..
    I found this one quite funny, imagine taking someone to court for taking diuretics, watch out Jenny Craig.

    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    What you are arguing is similar to saying that while someone's fingerprints are there on a knife and is the most recent DNA sample, there is no way to prove that he/she actually stabbed the dead person so therefore is not guilty of murder.
    I would ask you to take your reasoning to any standard courtroom and provide some comic releif.
    It is you that has supplied the comic relief, fingerprints alone do not prove a crime you also need to prove motive, intent and opportunity.

    Another thing you fail to realise is in a court room two people can be convicted of murder and one will be sentenced to life in prison and the other can be sentenced to 2 years jail, they dont have the same penalty for murder its up to the judge to decide on the merits of the case.

  4. #124
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    It is you that has supplied the comic relief, fingerprints alone do not prove a crime you also need to prove motive, intent and opportunity.

    Another thing you fail to realise is in a court room two people can be convicted of murder and one will be sentenced to life in prison and the other can be sentenced to 2 years jail, they dont have the same penalty for murder its up to the judge to decide on the merits of the case.

    Motive and intent are not essential. You cannot establish motive or intent in a random murder or serial killer case for example and psychological evaluation is dodgy at best.

    As far as sentencing variations, the JURY deciedes. Not the judge. And that is a question of intent- accidental, heat of the moment or cold blooded.
    Warne cannot prove that his actions were accidental or heat of the moment and the burden of proof lies with the one charged that it was accidental or heat of the moment.

    Either way, the FACT is warne is a drug cheat.

    PS: Aussie aussie aussie. Oi Oi Oi.


  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Motive and intent are not essential. You cannot establish motive or intent in a random murder or serial killer case for example and psychological evaluation is dodgy at best.

    As far as sentencing variations, the JURY deciedes. Not the judge. And that is a question of intent- accidental, heat of the moment or cold blooded.
    Warne cannot prove that his actions were accidental or heat of the moment and the burden of proof lies with the one charged that it was accidental or heat of the moment.

    Either way, the FACT is warne is a drug cheat.

    PS: Aussie aussie aussie. Oi Oi Oi.
    Are you on drugs yourself C_C.

  6. #126
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    Are you on drugs yourself C_C.
    Nah. Its just that i posess something thats alien to you : A brain.


    You would do well to admit the truth- Warne is a drug cheat. but i guess blind patriotism is one of the vices that afflicts you.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Nah. Its just that i posess something thats alien to you : A brain.


    You would do well to admit the truth- Warne is a drug cheat. but i guess blind patriotism is one of the vices that afflicts you.
    Hes no more a drug cheat than the WI fast bowlers caught smoking dope on the beach in the 80's. But then again you would have forgotten that wouldent you.

  8. #128
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    Guys you two have been squabbling for several months if not years, and not getting anywhere.

    You post long replies to each other, like Richard and TooExtra Cool are notorious for and which annoyed everyone else, because every bloody thread became a battle ground.

    Now you guys are doing the same !!

    Call it a truce !! Neither is going to get the other to change their mind, so move on fellas !

  9. #129
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    Hes no more a drug cheat than the WI fast bowlers caught smoking dope on the beach in the 80's. But then again you would have forgotten that wouldent you.
    First, if it was only marijuana, i have no problems with it : Several research shows that marijuana has benificial health qualities.

    Second,when it comes to drug abuse, there are TWO categories : performance enhancing/masking agents and addictive destructive ones.

    One example of the former is Naldrolone or Diuretics. One example of the latter is cocaine/heroin etc.
    Marijuana falls in neither category and thus the commotion around marijuana.
    Diuretics, unfortunately, fall on the former category.

    So while one can accuse Warne of being a drug cheat for performance enhancement, no such claim can be made of a marijuana smoker.

    Besides, like i said, maybe if you grew a brain and saw past petty and idiotic nationalist agendas, you might become something worthwhile.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    First, if it was only marijuana, i have no problems with it : Several research shows that marijuana has benificial health qualities.

    Second,when it comes to drug abuse, there are TWO categories : performance enhancing/masking agents and addictive destructive ones.

    One example of the former is Naldrolone or Diuretics. One example of the latter is cocaine/heroin etc.
    Marijuana falls in neither category and thus the commotion around marijuana.
    Diuretics, unfortunately, fall on the former category.

    So while one can accuse Warne of being a drug cheat for performance enhancement, no such claim can be made of a marijuana smoker.

    Besides, like i said, maybe if you grew a brain and saw past petty and idiotic nationalist agendas, you might become something worthwhile.
    Care to explain why dope is on the banned drug list and why it is illegal.

  11. #131
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    Care to explain why dope is on the banned drug list and why it is illegal.
    Because it is thought to be harmful to the system and can cause many illnesses.
    However, that is under reveiw and a cause for much controversy.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Because it is thought to be harmful to the system and can cause many illnesses.
    However, that is under reveiw and a cause for much controversy.
    But you agree those WI bowlers are drug cheats like Warne.

  13. #133
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    But you agree those WI bowlers are drug cheats like Warne.
    Drug cheats ? yes.
    Like Warne ? No- Marijuana is neither a performance enhancing drug nor a masking agent for one.

    Besides, like i said, Marijuana is a very volatile subject and is not a standard banned drug- there is lot of commotion around it.

  14. #134
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    This thread is not about Shane Warne and any possible drug taking. It stops here!

    You have been warned...


  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by cric_manic
    if we are talking tests i would like to see Mcullum instead of sangakarra as the keeper
    You are kidding aren't u Sangakkara is by far the better batsmen, he will come close to making the side as a batsmen along. Keeping their about the same but Sangakkara has experience keeping to Murali. Sangakkara has to be a certain pick for ODI and Tests
    The man, the mountain, the Mathews. The greatest all rounder since Keith Miller. (Y)

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