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Thread: Time to stop insulting Zim, Bang & the associates. There have always been "minnows"

  1. #1
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    Icon7 Time to stop insulting Zim, Bang & the associates. There have always been "minnows"

    Hi I'm a new member but have been reading posts for a while before registering.

    A lot of cricket fans, and some members here, spend a lot of time running Bangladesh & Zimbabwe down, in addition to the associate countries.

    Test cricket has always had minnows. For example, New Zealand were granted test status in 1930 but didn't win a match until 1956, 26 years after!

    In addition, they didn't win a series until 1969, that's a wait of 39 years.

    Makes Zimbabwe & Bangladesh look good, doesn't it?

    South Africa were also the whipping boys of Tests for the first few years, and India, Pakistan & The West Indies also copped their fair share of thrashings for the first few years, not to mention Sri Lanka.

    If anything we need to grow the game, and every new team will have its share of problems adjusting.

    What's really sad is that if you go through the archives, there are records of 1st class matches with countries like Ireland, Holland & Scotland, dating back to the 1950's & 1960's, yet nothing was done all that time, 40-50 years, to develop them by the ICC. The same thing could be said about Fiji, who regularly toured New Zealand & Australia at 1st class level in the 1960's, but were never developed.

    Sure Bangladesh may have "only" beaten Zimbabwe but give them a few years & this country will improve the same way Sri Lanka did.

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    I don't see it happening in a "few" years... maybe ten. It wasn't even against a strong Zimbabwe team. But yeah, BD will eventually become a decent team. Can't say that for Zimbabwe though. They are in complete disarray and losing to BD in both ODIs and tests must have destroyed their confidence completly.

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    U19 12th Man amokk1's Avatar
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    Agreed. Zimbabwe to compete man, they need to drop their differences and work as a team. The Rebel Players need to be brought back into the team. That is Zimbabwe's first step into gaining respect.
    Last edited by amokk1; 31-01-2005 at 07:50 PM.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    ICC were never anything more than a pawn before the early 1990s (good thing, some might say) so they can't really be blamed for the failure to develop the game before then.
    The point is, the game has changed since all three of the 1880s (SA), the 1920s and 30s (West Indies, New Zealand and India), and even the 1980s. Test-cricket is played far, far, far more regularly nowadays and there is (quite rightly) the expectation that all play all. The weaker sides can't play sporadically any more, it doesn't work that way now.
    Zimbabwe and Bangladesh are damaging the integrity of Test-cricket by playing it - the way sides didn't used to.
    They'd be far better served - for themselves and the integrity of Test-cricket - to be playing in domestic competitions of neighbouring stronger countries.
    Cricket has changed. There are more professional ways of introducing new teams nowadays.
    I'd not be astonished if Bangladesh have already lost more Test-matches and gifted more good batting and bowling figures than any of New Zealand, West Indies or South Africa did in their early years - because so much more cricket is played nowadays.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan
    I don't see it happening in a "few" years... maybe ten. It wasn't even against a strong Zimbabwe team. But yeah, BD will eventually become a decent team. Can't say that for Zimbabwe though. They are in complete disarray and losing to BD in both ODIs and tests must have destroyed their confidence completly.
    Everything in Zimbabwe has been destroyed and while humans will always repair things from the seemingly most desolate ruins, it's never going to happen while Mugabe's around.
    He's destroyed everything in Zimbabwe - cricket is no exception.

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    The teams like Nzl played a lot less.

    Also, with travelling possible much more easily than in the past, the way to go for the minnows is to play A sides of the better teams. Sorry, but international status matches with Zimbabwe and Bangladesh are a disgrace to the international cricket fraternity.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amokk1
    Agreed. Zimbabwe to compete man, they need to drop their differences and work as a team. The Rebel Players need to be brought back into the team. That is Zimbabwe's first step into gaining respect.
    Even before the rebels they were still nowhere near ODI or Test-class once they lost all those players after WC2003.

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    nice to have you here.Why do you care what people say?I know some people act like they know alot but they are just bunch of idiots runing there mouth like they know alot.
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    SJS
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    There has been a lot of talk on this forum of how the other teams were equally weak when they got test status as bangladesh are proving to be today. This is totally incorrect and disproved by facts. To look at the win and how many years it took for a win to come is shortsidedness.

    1) Much fewer matches were played in those days.
    - For example, India played only 24 tests in the twenty years that they took to register their first win.
    2) While they may not have won many tests, but they competed very well and had some world class individual performance.
    - For example, India had, before their first testvictory, 19 test centurions and 11 five for hauls(in 23 tests !!)
    - Three of their batsmen had test averages in the fifties and another 6 in the forties !! I can quote similar performances from other sides like New Zealand and South Africa.
    3) While they did not win, they drew many games and put the top sides under pressure many times. Look at their stats before they won the first test...

    COUNTRY......TESTS......LOST.......DRAWN.....Loss %
    NZLAND...........44..........22............22................50
    INDIA..............24...........12............12...............50
    SRI LANKA.......13............8..............5........ ......61
    ZIMBABWE.......10............4.................6.............40
    B DESH..........33...........31...............3.......... 90+
    Note: South Africa lost 10 out of their first 11 tests but then went on to win 4 of the next five !!

    So clearly Bangla Desh are out of their league and were brought into the test fold much earlier than they deserved if being able to compete with the other test sides was a criteria. as it was for the others.

    I remember, we used to have unofficial tests between India and Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) before they were granted test status, and they gave us a bloody good fight. I still remember some excelent players like Michael Tissera who would have walked in to the Indian side, Tennakoon and others.

    Similar unofficial tests were played , before even I was born !!) before India was granted test status and so good were these England sides and so creditably did the Indians perform that when discussing the great Indian all time cricketers I have often heard people saying that those cricketers must also be included since their performances in these 'unofficial' tests were no lesser.

    Where was that caliber and that testing by fire done for Bangla Desh.

    Yes, the same is not true for Zimbabwe. I dont thinmk they were granted test status earlier than they deserved. They have become minnows !! Because of their rascist selection policies. If their best teams were selected, they were probably the fastest improving test side in the world and were already giving a very tough fight to the older nations.

    In fact, Bangla Desh's win would have taken much longer to come but for the 'dishonourable' Mr Mughabe.
    Last edited by SJS; 31-01-2005 at 08:49 PM.

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    Thats the end of this thread !! Point well made SJS.
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    That is the end of this thread well said sjs.

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    Well said SJS........

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    SJS certainly covered that argument pretty comprehensively (pity about the new sinister avatar though. What the hell IS that??? ).

    Bangladesh's lack of exposure to four-day (and longer) cricket was as good a reason as any for test status to be withheld, at least for a while. As it happens though, I DO think they're on the improve, even if this Zimbabwe outfit is pathetic. Even though the Indian team they beat late last year was a weakened ODI side, it was still a significant win. And they pushed Pakistan right to the brink in a test earlier last year where had it not been for a real captain's knock from Inzy, they would definitely have won.

    Regardless of whether their admission into international test cricket was rushed (and it was), I've enjoyed their wins against Zimbabwe for two reasons: firstly, it's good to see a team start to get some confidence and individual players used to losing learn what it's like to win. But secondly, and most importantly, I believe it's important for international cricket that Zimbabwe be beaten by a minnow like Bangladesh, in order that we once again have a spotlight on the ZCU's selection policies and behaviour towards their players. Sadly, I think this issue had faded a little over the last few months. I see that the ZCU has begun re-negotiating with the "rebel players" in the light of these embarrassing losses, too.

    The irony doesn't escape me that a hasty and ill-advised decision made by the ICC (the admission of Bangladesh to full international status) has aided in the exposure of some even worse decision-making where it comes to the way they've failed to deal with the ZCU. Their initial stance on Zimbabwe's recent crisis was to establish that appropriate standards of cricket were being maintained, and they ended up buying the ZCU's line that they were fielding their best available side - I think it's time for the ICC to to be asking themselves (and the ZCU) these questions again, after Zimbabwe's humbling at the hands of Bangladesh.
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    School Boy/Girl Captain dudeurfriend's Avatar
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    Slow love You are right... Bangladesh test status was given perhaps a bit earlier.....

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    Bangladesh and Zimbabwe should be put back to the InterContential Cup. If they play the other minnows more regulary then that is good for teams like Scotland, Kenya and themselves. They should be dropped from Test Status and play aganist A Teams and the other minnows. 8 Teams playing Test Cricket is enough.
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