Rawalpindi Express derailed

[Gangster]

Okay, look I used to be a big Shoaib Akhtar fan, but now I think he's crap. That being said, I can't believe how everyone is commending Wasim Akram on being such a great team player and a great influence who bowls in every condition, etc. Have we all forgotten Wasim Akram used to FIX MATCHES!!!!!!!!! For me, that ruins everything he's ever accomplished on the cricket pitch. For all of Akhtar's faults, he's never thrown a match for money. He may have thrown it to be a douchebag, but never because a bookie paid him. Akram on the other hand enjoyed those cash payouts quite a bit. It's really sad when you think about it.

[Sanz]

Can you please tell us about any one single match that was fixed by Wasim Akram And how Akram fixed it ??

[honestbharani]

I suppose it never came out in enquiries and as such, it is just speculation on my part but I found the WC loss to Bangladesh to be very very suspicious.

[SJS]

I think none of this is really pertinent.

What is being discussed is Shoaib's bowling not his , or anyone else's, ethics, values etc. Bringing these things into the picture only shows that the main argument is being lost.

[rehanyazdani]

Originally Posted by SJS

I think none of this is really pertinent.

What is being discussed is Shoaib's bowling not his , or anyone else's, ethics, values etc. Bringing these things into the picture only shows that the main argument is being lost.

yeah i agree. that is whats been happening in the media as well. ppl just focus on akhtar's personal life. so what if he goes to clubs? i know that's not thought of as a good thing in pakistan, but that also doesnt mean u should start hating a person for it.

[Choora]

Originally Posted by Vikas Bhatt

Frankly, I never said, that Sami is crap because he didn't approach Wasim. All I said is that it's time he started delivering and if PCB believes he is a good enough bowler to be in the side despite his many failures than maybe it is high time he started looking up some senior bowlers and see where he has been going wrong. Just how wrong would that be?

!

Nothing is wrong with that, but the topic is about Akhtar, and all of a sudden you started mentioning Sami, which made me wonder as to where exactly are you trying to head to?

Regarding Akhter whether he should shorten his run up or no is another issue but his so called long run up is the result of more of his self delusions of grandeur of trying to be the fastest in the world over anything called team interest

He is the fastest in the world and his team's interest is in the fact that he bowls fast.Pace is his greatest weapon and if he compromise on that then he will become mediocre.

If Australian players criticize his short run up then why should it bother Akhter as anyways Australians are always playing psychological mind games to undermine their oppositions' best players? Does Akhter think that what the Australian players think of him is more important than what the PCB, his captain and his coach expect of him?

It was his dumb captain & coach who started the debate about Akhtar reducing his runup.The Aussies took advantage of the situation and joined his captain and coach in criticizing Akhtar over his long runup. When Akhtar bowled with a shorter runup (and was less effective which you still have to realise) then Aussies satred criticizing Akhtar for giving an under-par performance.Later Inzi and Bob also expressed dissapointment with Akhtar's performance.The PCB (which you had wrongly refferd to) had NEVER asked Akhtar to reduce his runup.
Akhtar did whatever he was asked for yet gets criticized.The mistake he made was ever listening to his captain (who knows nothing about fast bowling or running ).

wouldn't it be prudent if he stopped playing if he knows that truth in the interest of his team and his country? I mean whats the point of selecting a bowler again and again, who will not observe discipline, won't listen to his board, captain and coach, will play a match, break down then limp out for the next two, thereby upseting the team's selection, rythmn, plans and balance all the time? Does it make sense then to invest so much in terms of money, infrastructure, facilities, trainers, consultants, team performances etc., to retain just one individual who does not justify the returns expected at the minimal after all the work put behind him?

Its in the interest of the country if he plays rather than stop playing. And all the money and facilities you mentioned is not spent on Akhtar alone, its for whole Pak team.Even if you take Akhtar out they will still be spending the same amount of money.(infact they are spending alot on someone like Umar Gul who is not likely to even play again.)

Only Shoaib could have arrogantly stated that he alone wins matches while the remaining 10 do nothing in the team

There is a limit to exaggeration.Akhtar never said that he alone wins matches and the rest do nothing.During Indian tour of Pakistan Akhtar REMINDED EVERYONE AND INZAMAM inparticular that he alone cannot win matches for Pakistan and others too would have to contribute. Is that ARROGANCE ..... NO otherwise how are you going to explain Inzi's conduct when he held Akhtar SOLE RESPONSIBLE for defeat???? Imran Khan, Miandad,Asif Iqbal,Rashid Lateef (do these names mean something to you?) all made it very clear at that time that Akhtar was NOT AT FAULT and he was being made a scapegoat.
Later after the Aussie tour when Bob and Inzi were criticizing Akhtar, Akhtar came up with his defence and sated that there was too much pressure on him as he was the only match winning pacer in the team.THIS IS HARD FACT THAT NOONE CAN DENY.To say its arrogance is rubbish, if you can hold responsible just ONE individual of ateam for defeat then he has the right to defend himself and state the ground realities.If they seems arrogance to you then its ur problem.

If he feels p i s s e d off that Wasim encourages Irfan and praises him and not Shoaib, then there is something seriously wrong with as it reveals his bitterness about Wasim, NOT PRAISING HIM

BY the same token something must be seriously wrong with Inzi for being ****ed off at Imran Khan over his criticism on Inzi's captainship. Imran interestngly was the one who had discovered Inzi and happen to be his Godfather.
Akhtar only expressed his dissapointement with Akram, there is nothing wrong with that.

If he is not going to have a long career like yous ay Choora, then the PCB should also recognize and accept this fact and move on and groom a long term prospect in Shoaib's place rather than waste expensive resources over the Prima Donna Showman!

Fisrt they aren't spending all that much on Akhtar as the facilities are for each and every player of Pak team, Akhtar doesn't have copyrights for it! Secondarily they are spending far, far too much on pacers like Shabbir Ahmad (who has spend almost all his time in hospital) and Umar Gul(who seems to be unliely to play again.
It will be better for you to identify the long term propect then just talk about it.Do you have anyone in mind? The selection committee have long been looking for potential young pacer but the situation isn't that rosy atall.

The fact that after every defeat Akhtar happens to be the sole target of criticism suggest that something is wrong with Pak team.Maybe ppl don't take Pak team seriously atall, and think that its a one man team in Akhtar.And if that Akhtar end up defending himself saying that he alone can't win matches for Pakistan, then he becomes arrogant.If he doesn't reduce his runup for the interest of his team( even though his team continue to suffer from of overrates even when he's not playing ) then he become selfish.He he reduces his runup then he is accuced of performing under-par.

Now where is Inzi going to find a better player than Akhtar in Pakistan team for being made a scapegoat in order to divert ppl's attention from his poor captaincy?? No one is going to bother to talk about Akhtar's new ball partner Sami, noone care to hold Pakistan's batsmen responsible for defeat for playing like schoolboys.Akhtar is the perfect candidate for bashing!

So guys, Inzi needs Akhtar badly, he needs to make him a scapegoat after every series defeat.And one doesn't need to tell as to where Inzi's finger will be pointing after Indian hands Pak a trashing in the come test series.

[Vikas Bhatt]

It was his dumb captain & coach who started the debate about Akhtar reducing his runup.The Aussies took advantage of the situation and joined his captain and coach in criticizing Akhtar over his long runup. When Akhtar bowled with a shorter runup (and was less effective which you still have to realise) then Aussies satred criticizing Akhtar for giving an under-par performance.Later Inzi and Bob also expressed dissapointment with Akhtar's performance.The PCB (which you had wrongly refferd to) had NEVER asked Akhtar to reduce his runup.
Akhtar did whatever he was asked for yet gets criticized.The mistake he made was ever listening to his captain (who knows nothing about fast bowling or running ).

Since when has a bowler who made changes to his bowling been immediately successful? A bowler who changes his pace, or if he makes a return from an injury takes time to get going! No one can claim immediate success when they have a lay off or a change in style. Harbhajan struggled a lot on comeback after his bolwing action was changed in 1998. Warne was totally off colour and average when he made two successful returns from injuries in recent years. He was ineffective for 6-8 months in between, when he had his spinning finger treated. These things happen, but it takes some time for a bowler to get used to the new changes and the new feel of their bodies and re-discover their old skills and rythmn. Recently Brett Lee after breaking down often, came back with his pace reduced. The last year saw him struggle a lot, get whacked all around and even lose his test spot. But he had to continue. Now slowly his old rythmn is coming back. His skills are returning over his new run up and he is slowly getting back to his devastating best!

Shoaib did struggle when he reduced his run up and it would be foolish to expect him to take wickets immediately when he did. All he had to do was hang in there and keep trying. Nothing changes or happens overnight in cricket! It will also take Shoaib some months before he gets the changes to work in his favour. Time and Patience are the keys to making the necessary adjustments.

[amokk1]

Look man, I think different people are having different views. We should give this topic a rest.

[Choora]

Since when has a bowler who made changes to his bowling was immediately successful. A bowler who changes his pace, or if he makes a return from an injury takes time to get going! No one can claim immediate success when they have a lay off or a change in style. Harbhajan struggled a lot on comeback after his bolwing action was changed in 1998. Warne was totally off colour and average when he made two successful returns from injuries in recent years. He was ineffective for 6-8 months in between, when he had his spinning finger treated. These things happen, but it takes some time for a bowler to get used to the new changes and the new feel of their bodies and re-discover their old skills and rythmn. Recently Brett Lee after breaking down often, came back with his pace reduced. The last year saw him struggle a lot, get whacked all around and even lose his test spot. But he had to continue. Now slowly his old rythmn is coming back. His skills are returning over his new run up and he is slowly getting back to his devastating best!

Bhajji and Warne shouldn't have even been mentioned over here.Lee has yet to regain his place in test side, so to say that he's close to his devastating best is very premature.
What guarantees do you have that Akhtar will be successful if he reduces his runup? if that experiment fails then what is he suppose to do? again go for the longer runup and lose the plot? why should he listen to ppl (some of them like Ponting,McGrath were comming up with such statement for their own interest) when he's not himself comfortable with it? There are ex-players like Jeff Thompson and Sarfraz who think Akhtar won't be effective with a shorter runup.

Shoaib did struggle when he reduced his run up and it would be foolish to expect him to take wockets immediately when he did. All he had to do was hang in there and keep trying. Nothing changes or happens overnight in cricket! It will also take Shoaib some months before he gets the changes to work in his favour. Time and Patience are the keys to making the necessary adjustments.

Thats amazing, isn't it? when he reduced his runup his captain and coach were critical of him and became impatient!! so who is to be blamed?? why can't you realise for once that Akhtar (despite his short commings) is not entirely at fault.

[wahindiawah]

Now where is Inzi going to find a better player than Akhtar in Pakistan team for being made a scapegoat in order to divert ppl's attention from his poor captaincy?? No one is going to bother to talk about Akhtar's new ball partner Sami, noone care to hold Pakistan's batsmen responsible for defeat for playing like schoolboys.Akhtar is the perfect candidate for bashing!

Completely agreed.

Someone here mentioned how Akhtar failed to save Pakistan in test matches in Sharjah, but the guy didn't mentioned how the whole Pakistan team failed to even score 60 runs in an innings (not once but twice ) in a test match!!!

Even if McGrath, Warne,Murali and Akram were able to play cricket for the same team, even then they wouldn't be able to defend a score like 50.

[Arjun]

On another forum, someone wrote some parody lyrics. Here's one of them. Read on for a few laughs. NOTE- This is just a joke, not a part of the debate!

(to the tune of "Down Under")
Opens the bowling for his country
Retires hurt when things get Ugly
He has a rival, his name is Brett
Both can bowl very quickly

He says his name is Shoaib Akhtar
He likes to put pressure on Steve Bucknor
He appeals but gets told "no sorry pal"
so he goes off in a mood thats foul

Argues with Inzamam ul-haq
Got accused of bowling a chuck
He drops to his knees in anguish
Bucknor Says to watch his language


His name is Shaoib Akhtar
He likes to put pressure on Steve Bucknor
He appeals but gets told "no sorry pal"
so he goes off in a mood thats foul

He could have been the next Hadlee
He steered from that path most sadly
He's run up takes half a century
and the way he thinks is just me me me!

His name is Shaoib Akhtar
He likes to put pressure on Steve Bucknor
He appeals but gets told "no sorry pal"
so he goes off in a mood thats foul

(music fading out)
His name is Shaoib Akhtar
He likes to put pressure on Steve Bucknor
He appeals but gets told "no sorry pal"

[imranrabb]

is it supposed to be funny?