Rawalpindi Express derailed

[dudeurfriend]

The master of fast(speed)bowling Shoiabh Aktar has been constantly plagued by injuries.The time has come for him to concentrate more on bowling accurately(perhaps with a shorter run-up as suggested by bob-woolmer).He should perhaps learn few things from brettlee and try to bowl with shorter run-ups.This would indeed result in him getting injured less frequently and also would enhance his career...... have your say people.....

 

[honestbharani]

He could bowl with a long run up until he gets into rhythm and then, maybe he could switch to a shorter run up.

 

[wahindiawah]

.He should perhaps learn few things from brettlee and try to bowl with shorter run-ups.This would indeed result in him getting injured less frequently and also would enhance his career...... have your say people.....

Yeah the way Brett lee is bowling sooooo wonderfully in test matches, Akhtar can surely learn alot from him .

Akhtar can learn something from Irfan Pathan, and the thing he can learn is Irfan's good positive attitude, thats what Akhtar lacks. All this talk about long run up is old and useless as if the bowler himself is not comfortable with a shorter run up then its no point to reduce the run up.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

If he can control it, he can bowl what he likes.

 

[SJS]

Imran , in the latest Sporttar has written in detail about the need for Shoaib to cut down on his run up and not to chsrge in full steam ahead from the beginning of the run. Not because he would hurt himself (which he would) but also because he didnt need it. He says he tried to convince Shoaib who just refuses to listen.

I am not surprised there are people on this forum who refuse to listen to the same.

 

[marc71178]

Yeah the way Brett lee is bowling sooooo wonderfully in test matches, Akhtar can surely learn alot from him .

For once I thought you were being unbiased, but then you decided he needed help from Pathan (!)

 

[bryce]

For once I thought you were being unbiased, but then you decided he needed help from Pathan (!)

yes i was in disbelief for a moment aswell

 

[-dude-]

For once I thought you were being unbiased, but then you decided he needed help from Pathan (!)

Yeah, I thought too....Pathan's record so far without help from Bangladesh?

However, keeping on-topic....Shoaib is simply a GREAT bowler, they are the facts, and I am speaking unbiasedly. If he had a temperament that was more perseverant, less-willing to give up the fight when things are against him, he would be MORE of a match-winner, instead of producing good results in losing efforts. Although, it would be handy if Pakistan could find a decent test bowler who can support him at the other end.

 

[Slow Love™]

Imran , in the latest Sporttar has written in detail about the need for Shoaib to cut down on his run up and not to chsrge in full steam ahead from the beginning of the run. Not because he would hurt himself (which he would) but also because he didnt need it. He says he tried to convince Shoaib who just refuses to listen.

I am not surprised there are people on this forum who refuse to listen to the same.

You say this so dismissively. I'd count myself as one who doesn't think that just because this gets repeated often, it must be true.

The problem is that Shoaib is an injury prone fast bowler. He's not the first, and certainly won't be the last (I remember being frustrated with Gillespie's constant injuries, but I don't remember people taking so many stabs at his fortitude). Akhtar's biggest problem is his big mouth, which makes him a target for those that think he's too big for his britches (he sometimes is, even if he sometimes isn't), and who want to tear him down for being too soft, for pretending to be hurt, for not listening to Imran Khan, or having too long a runup, or whatever.

There's no guarantee, whatever Imran Khan may think, that Shoaib will be the same force with a shorter runup. The only time we've seen him attempt it was late in the test series, and to me, he looked terrible. Maybe he can persevere with this and improve, maybe he can't - it just isn't a given, as people seem to imply, that it will make him a better bowler, or more consistent, just because there are great bowlers out there who did it.

Personally I dislike how the issue becomes what Shoaib HAS to do, when he's still the best fast bowler Pakistan has, and he seems to get very little credit for the effort he puts in, especially considering his sterling solo efforts this last series.

I had thought that the comments in the Australian press by Ponting etc were just the usual psychological baiting. First he gets criticised for not shortening his runup, then, when it's shortened, the Aussies are "surprised" he wasn't trying harder, and steaming in to take their wickets. Not unusually, it's a no-win situation for Akhtar. Pakistan's biggest concern should be his bowling support, rather than constant attacks on Shoaib himself, IMO. Maybe leave that to the opposition.

 

[SJS]

Yes I do. And I will tell you why.

I have heard and read many fast bowlers agree to this, that reducing the run up and/or not running at full pace from first step but accelrating and going full pace only in the last six-seven steps.

But I have yet to hear OR read from any fast bowler, current or old to say that the contrary is true.

Surely Shoaib cant be the only one who is correct.

Yes there are those who feel he should be left alone. Sure enough, if he is not going to listen you have to leave him alone. But no one(a fast bowler himself) has said that this advise does not make sense.

I am willing to be corrected.

 

[SJS]

Yes he is injury prone. So whats new? So is every fast bowler. But many of them realised what they had to do and prolonged their careers. There are dozens of examples. Both the run up and even more than that the action can cause severe strains and long term damage.

If Lillee had not been prepared to listen and change he would never have been able to come back from a crippling injury miraculously. If Shoaib is not willing to listen, it is his funeral. But this cant be commended as " the poor fellow is putting in so much hard work".

What Ponting and company say does not matter. No one is saying he should listen to them. That doesnt mean he should not listen to sound advise given by his well wishers just because an Australian or someone who is not a well wisher said it too. This is strange logic.

 

[nightprowler10]

You say this so dismissively. I'd count myself as one who doesn't think that just because this gets repeated often, it must be true.

The problem is that Shoaib is an injury prone fast bowler. He's not the first, and certainly won't be the last (I remember being frustrated with Gillespie's constant injuries, but I don't remember people taking so many stabs at his fortitude). Akhtar's biggest problem is his big mouth, which makes him a target for those that think he's too big for his britches (he sometimes is, even if he sometimes isn't), and who want to tear him down for being too soft, for pretending to be hurt, for not listening to Imran Khan, or having too long a runup, or whatever.

There's no guarantee, whatever Imran Khan may think, that Shoaib will be the same force with a shorter runup. The only time we've seen him attempt it was late in the test series, and to me, he looked terrible. Maybe he can persevere with this and improve, maybe he can't - it just isn't a given, as people seem to imply, that it will make him a better bowler, or more consistent, just because there are great bowlers out there who did it.

Personally I dislike how the issue becomes what Shoaib HAS to do, when he's still the best fast bowler Pakistan has, and he seems to get very little credit for the effort he puts in, especially considering his sterling solo efforts this last series.

I had thought that the comments in the Australian press by Ponting etc were just the usual psychological baiting. First he gets criticised for not shortening his runup, then, when it's shortened, the Aussies are "surprised" he wasn't trying harder, and steaming in to take their wickets. Not unusually, it's a no-win situation for Akhtar. Pakistan's biggest concern should be his bowling support, rather than constant attacks on Shoaib himself, IMO. Maybe leave that to the opposition.

The only time I saw Akhter use a shorter run-up was during the Asia Cup few months ago against India, when Pakistan were trying to stop India from getting that blasted bonus point. His shorter run-up was very economical, but you could tell that Akhter himself wasn't very comfortable with it.

I say, leave the guy alone, and stop using him as a scapegoat for Pakistan's past failures, instead appreciate his efforts. Don't deny him the credit he's deserved for his efforts to win games for Pakistan. He's no Wasim Akram or Waqar Younis, but he gives it his very best.

That said, I still think he's an a$$.

 

[SJS]

The only time I saw Akhter use a shorter run-up was during the Asia Cup few months ago against India, when Pakistan were trying to stop India from getting that blasted bonus point. His shorter run-up was very economical, but you could tell that Akhter himself wasn't very comfortable with it.

I say, leave the guy alone, and stop using him as a scapegoat for Pakistan's past failures, instead appreciate his efforts. Don't deny him the credit he's deserved for his efforts to win games for Pakistan. He's no Wasim Akram or Waqar Younis, but he gives it his very best.

That said, I still think he's an a$$.

Its not going to be possible for him to cut down on his run up in the middle of a match and be the same bowler. If he tried that, it will only show that it doesnt work.

It is something he has to agree to try in the nets and work at it over a period of time and do it in a match situation only when he is comfortable with it. It wont happen overnight let alone in the middle of a match.

 

[Slow Love™]

Yes I do. And I will tell you why.

I have heard and read many fast bowlers agree to this, that reducing the run up and/or not running at full pace from first step but accelrating and going full pace only in the last six-seven steps.

But I have yet to hear OR read from any fast bowler, current or old to say that the contrary is true.

Surely Shoaib cant be the only one who is correct.

Yes there are those who feel he should be left alone. Sure enough, if he is not going to listen you have to leave him alone. But no one(a fast bowler himself) has said that this advise does not make sense.

I am willing to be corrected.

Firstly, as to the comment "surely Shoaib can't be the only one who is correct.", why can't he be? If the world wants to discuss my mental or physical tolerances, am I not equipped to answer that question accurately on an individual basis? Which is not to say that he can't be wrong, but why the automatic assumption that if he disagrees, he must be?

Aside from this though, you're over-emphasising anecdotal evidence of bowlers making comments on the issue. How many fast bowlers have said this would be a good idea for Shoaib? Five? Six? Sixty? How much does it matter? Numerous former players have commented on Sehwag's lack of footwork - I don't think I've ever heard anybody say that his footwork is fine. So what?

My point is that there's a natural assumption that Shoaib must adopt these strategies. I think that he's a magnet for criticism whatever he does - and I think it's largely motivated by problems perceived with his attitude and integrity. You're entitled to a different opinion, but you act as if anybody that disagrees must be in some form of childish denial like Shoaib obviously is. I don't see why.

 

[twctopcat]

Its not going to be possible for him to cut down on his run up in the middle of a match and be the same bowler. If he tried that, it will only show that it doesnt work.

It is something he has to agree to try in the nets and work at it over a period of time and do it in a match situation only when he is comfortable with it. It wont happen overnight let alone in the middle of a match.

Definitely, it is all a question of rhythm and being comfortable. Akhtar can get the same pace of 10 paces rather than running in from the sightscreen. However he feels that he needs such a long run up to be comfortable and in rhythm.

 

[SJS]

Firstly, as to the comment "surely Shoaib can't be the only one who is correct.", why can't he be? If the world wants to discuss my mental or physical tolerances, am I not equipped to answer that question accurately on an individual basis? Which is not to say that he can't be wrong, but why the automatic assumption that if he disagrees, he must be?

Aside from this though, you're over-emphasising anecdotal evidence of bowlers making comments on the issue. How many fast bowlers have said this would be a good idea for Shoaib? Five? Six? Sixty? How much does it matter? Numerous former players have commented on Sehwag's lack of footwork - I don't think I've ever heard anybody say that his footwork is fine. So what?

My point is that there's a natural assumption that Shoaib must adopt these strategies. I think that he's a magnet for criticism whatever he does - and I think it's largely motivated by problems perceived with his attitude and integrity. You're entitled to a different opinion, but you act as if anybody that disagrees must be in some form of childish denial like Shoaib obviously is. I don't see why.

Of course one can take that arguement to its "logical" infinite conclusion...six, sixty, six hundred, six thousand.....on and on. If thats the case, I have nothing to say.

I have nothing against Shoaib's attotude and I am not overly critical of him. He is one of my favourite cricketers in the world !!

It pains me to see him break down.

It pains me to see him compete with the speed gun when he has so much to give to the game by concentrating on competeing with the batsman.

It pains me to see that one of the most exciting prospects of our times may not fulfill its potential and

It pains me that this is because this childlike but highly gifted cricketer has not found someone whom he can trust enough to try something to solve his problems.

AND he does have problems...serious problems. If you think he has none then I rest my case.

 

[Slow Love™]

Yes he is injury prone. So whats new? So is every fast bowler. But many of them realised what they had to do and prolonged their careers. There are dozens of examples. Both the run up and even more than that the action can cause severe strains and long term damage.

If Lillee had not been prepared to listen and change he would never have been able to come back from a crippling injury miraculously. If Shoaib is not willing to listen, it is his funeral. But this cant be commended as " the poor fellow is putting in so much hard work".

What Ponting and company say does not matter. No one is saying he should listen to them. That doesnt mean he should not listen to sound advise given by his well wishers just because an Australian or someone who is not a well wisher said it too. This is strange logic.

It's obviously a mischaracterisation to portray this issue as one of Shoaib putting his fingers in his ears and saying "naa naa, I won't listen". Nevertheless, this is how it's perpetually described, in spite of the fact that it's obvious that he HAS been willing to try using a shorter runup. It seems more likely to me that he has not found this to give him the same rhythm and power that his current runup allows him, at this stage. In fact, IIRC, he's been quite amenable to doing this a little further along in his career, just not now while he's still capable of being so quick.

Now, it's possible that if he sticks with this for a long period, it may pay dividends. It also may not. Rhythm is a hard thing for a bowler to keep, and sheer pace is still Shoaib's best weapon. The main issue I have with this argument is that it acts as if he has no understanding of his own requirements for how he bowls.

 

[SJS]

You ask, why can't he be? correct ? Why not indeed, but then again why cant he be wrong ? ?

 

[SJS]

Now, it's possible that if he sticks with this for a long period, it may pay dividends. It also may not. Rhythm is a hard thing for a bowler to keep, and sheer pace is still Shoaib's best weapon. The main issue I have with this argument is that it acts as if he has no understanding of his own requirements for how he bowls.

1. No one is saying he should not bowl fast. The question is whether he needs to run in at this speed from this distance to obtain that speed. Maybe he will run from another twent yards back and add another 10 miles to his speed. Kidding .

But the point is that those , like Tyson, whom I quoted and who was a very similar case to Shoaib in many respects, finally listened to what was being said, AND CUT DOWN HIS RUN UP, without affecting his speed. Shoaib needs to try it, NOT TO PROVE OTHERS RIGHT, but for his own longevity's sake. Thats all there is to it.

Yes maybe he has an understanding of his own requirements for how he bowls BUT then again, maybe he hasnt.

One thing that I have learnt is that, that which we have held longest to be true, is the opinion or method or view, most important for us to look at anew. Its our oldest beliefs that tend to let us down because we never ever question them.

 

[Slow Love™]

Of course one can take that arguement to its "logical" infinite conclusion...six, sixty, six hundred, six thousand.....on and on. If thats the case, I have nothing to say.

You misunderstood here. The point is that I don't think there are anywhere near sixty. I think it's a fairly small sample. You're just pointing to the fact that, while there's a handful of fast bowlers making this comment about Shoaib, the fact that you can't come up with someone disagreeing (although off the top of my head, I think Kasprowicz might have) makes a very strong case - I don't think that kind of counting of anecdotal commentary does (and the same was true of opinions on Murali, IMO).

But as to having nothing against Shoaib's attitude, I would have thought that the claim that he's stupidly ignoring Imran Khan and some other fast bowler's advice is a criticism of his attitude.

Anyhow he's one of my favorite crickers too.

AND he does have problems...serious problems. If you think he has none then I rest my case.

Bit of a straw man there, SJS, 'cause I never said that. I just don't agree that it's necessarily the case that he NEEDS to shorten his runup.