Captains

roseboy64 · 15-01-2005, 12:14 PM

Who in your estimations are the best captains ever for each Test side?I'll start us off.

Australia - Allan Border
West Indies - Frank Worrell
Bangladesh - Habibul Bashar(1st victory)
New Zealand - Stephen Fleming
England - Mike Brearley
South Africa - Hansie Cronje
Sri Lanka - Marvan Atapattu
Pakistan - Imran Khan
India - Saurav Ganguly
Zimbabwe - Andy Flower

Tom Halsey · 15-01-2005, 12:21 PM

Definite case of 'most recent best remembered' there in a few cases IMO.

Beleg · 15-01-2005, 12:36 PM

Pakistan - Imran
India - The Patodi Guy?
WI - Lloyd
Australia - Taylor
England - Peter May
SA - Cronje
Sri-lanka - Ranatuga
Zim when it mattered - Flower
NZ - Flemming

Tom Halsey · 15-01-2005, 01:14 PM

Australia - Taylor?

ReallyCrazy · 15-01-2005, 01:40 PM

Australia - Waugh
England - Brearley
India - Ganguly
Pakistan - Imran
Sri Lanka - Ranatunga
New Zealand - Fleming
West Indies - Lloyd
South Africa - Cronje

Hit4Six · 15-01-2005, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReallyCrazy

Australia - Waugh
England - Brearley
India - Ganguly
Pakistan - Imran
Sri Lanka - Ranatunga
New Zealand - Fleming
West Indies - Lloyd
South Africa - Cronje

right on brudah

Tom Halsey · 15-01-2005, 02:16 PM

Erm, all those players were withing the past 25/30 years... surely from Cricket's 125 years there are some captains who beat the past 25 years? I can think of a fair few contanders...

a massive zebra · 15-01-2005, 03:30 PM

Australia - Richie Benaud
West Indies - Frank Worrell
Bangladesh - Habibul Bashar
New Zealand - Stephen Fleming
India - Saurav Ganguly
England - Mike Brearley
South Africa - Hansie Cronje
Sri Lanka - Arjuna Ranatunga
Pakistan - Imran Khan
Zimbabwe - Andy Flower

Zinzan · 15-01-2005, 04:33 PM

From what I've seen (from 1980)

England - Mike Brearley
Australia - Steve Waugh
Pakistan - Imran
India - gavaskar
W.I - lloyd
Sri lanka - Rangatunga
NZ - Flem
S.Africa - Cronje ( before the silly buggers began)
Zimb - Campbell

My top 5 are in no particular order are....

FLEMING- (given his limited resourses over the years)

LLOYD -(although captained the greatest Windies side, always lead by example)

BREARLEY -( only problem being he wasn't good enough as a player)

WAUGH - (learn't from Border + Taylor and took ruthless captaincy to a new level - I think Ponting will probably do the same)

CRONJE - Incredible win/loss ratio. Before he lost the plot and threw it all away, he was so well respected world wide as a skipper.

Tom Halsey · 15-01-2005, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a massive zebra

India - Saurav Ganguly

Are you having a laugh?!

GermanShepherd · 15-01-2005, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Halsey

Are you having a laugh?!

No, he's being realistic -- India have never really had a good captain in the past.

Ganguly may not be the greatest tactician but he did provide strong leadership to Indian cricket at a time when they most needed it. He took the reigns in 2000 in the wake of a home series defeat by South Africa and more significantly, the match fixing scandal. India were languishing close to the bottom of the test table at that time -- now they're ranked 3rd ( and while John Wright deserves a fair bit of credit for that so does Ganguly).

So yeah while he may not compare to S Waugh or Frank Worrell, in terms of what India have had -- he's far better than a lot of captains I've seen.

I've seen a fair bit of Indian cricket (I've also coached there) over the last 20 years and Ganguly is definitely the best skipper I've witnessed in that time.

And from what I've heard, Indian skippers before that time aren't worth talking about.

a massive zebra · 15-01-2005, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanShepherd

No, he's being realistic -- India have never really had a good captain in the past.

Ganguly may not be the greatest tactician but he did provide strong leadership to Indian cricket at a time when they most needed it. He took the reigns in 2000 in the wake of a home series defeat by South Africa and more significantly, the match fixing scandal. India were languishing close to the bottom of the test table at that time -- now they're ranked 3rd ( and while John Wright deserves a fair bit of credit for that so does Ganguly).

So yeah while he may not compare to S Waugh or Frank Worrell, in terms of what India have had -- he's far better than a lot of captains I've seen.

I've seen a fair bit of Indian cricket (I've also coached there) over the last 20 years and Ganguly is definitely the best skipper I've witnessed in that time.

And from what I've heard, Indian skippers before that time aren't worth talking about.

Spot on mate.

Almost everyone in this thread had named Ganguly as India's best captain yet the Essex boy has a go at me only.

roseboy64 · 15-01-2005, 05:14 PM

Maybe you were the first he saw...

BoyBrumby · 15-01-2005, 05:56 PM

Well here's my picks. I've briefly tried to justify them:

Australia: Allan Border- lead Australia out of the dark ages. Not one to dominate by force of personality, he sowed the seeds that have borne the fruit under subsequent regimes. Hard to overestimate his importance in Australia’s current pre-eminence.
Bangladesh: Habibul Bashar- only ever winning Bangladesh skipper. Also drew first test with The Windies last year, outscoring their hosts in the first innings.
England: Douglas Jardine- England’s most thinking & most ruthless captain. Such was his innovative genius that cricket's rules were changed to counter it. 11 wins from 15 tests.
India: Kapil Dev- lead India to surprise triumph in ’83 WC & 2-0 series victory in England. Captaincy seemed to enhance rather than diminish him.
New Zealand: Bev Congdon- lead New Zealand to the first victory over Australia. Made New Zealand a serious force in the game.
Pakistan: Imran Khan- lead Pakistan to the ’92 World Cup & their first series win in England. His Pakistan were also the only team to seriously contest The Windies pre-eminence.
South Africa: Ali Bacher – only four tests in charge, but 100% record against a more than useful Oz team. I absolutely refuse to consider Cronje.
Sri Lanka: Arjuna Ranatunga- made the Sri Lankans a force to be reckoned with. A street-fighting politician of a captain, one may have occasion to question his actions, but one can’t help but admire his intense loyalty to his players.
West Indies: Clive Lloyd- laid the foundations for two decades of dominance. Used fast bowling to greater effect than any test captain since Jardine.
Zimbabwe: Alistair Campbell- lead Zimbabwe to their finest moment, the 1-0 series win in Pakistan in 98/99. Also oversaw creditable 0-0 draw with England in 96/97.

tooextracool · 15-01-2005, 09:09 PM

i find it hard to believe that people can put waugh down as the best australian captain, both the captains before him were far better.

15-01-2005, 12:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
roseboy64 Cricket Web Content Updater Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Jamaica Posts: 18,549	Captains Who in your estimations are the best captains ever for each Test side?I'll start us off. Australia - Allan Border West Indies - Frank Worrell Bangladesh - Habibul Bashar(1st victory) New Zealand - Stephen Fleming England - Mike Brearley South Africa - Hansie Cronje Sri Lanka - Marvan Atapattu Pakistan - Imran Khan India - Saurav Ganguly Zimbabwe - Andy Flower __________________ Sir Alexander Chapman Ferguson = Greatest Ever Manager "One from ten leaves zero." - Eric Williams, former T&T PM Member of Cricket Web Green Member of Northside Power R.I.P Fardin Qayyumi Last edited by roseboy64; 15-01-2005 at 04:22 PM.

15-01-2005, 12:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tom Halsey International Coach Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Halsway, CW Land Posts: 12,697	Definite case of 'most recent best remembered' there in a few cases IMO. __________________ MSN - tomhalsey123@hotmail.com Manchester United FC: 20 Times R.I.P. Sledger's Signature, 2004-2008

15-01-2005, 03:30 PM	#8 (permalink)
a massive zebra International Debutant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: on my ass @ the PC Posts: 2,775	Australia - Richie Benaud West Indies - Frank Worrell Bangladesh - Habibul Bashar New Zealand - Stephen Fleming India - Saurav Ganguly England - Mike Brearley South Africa - Hansie Cronje Sri Lanka - Arjuna Ranatunga Pakistan - Imran Khan Zimbabwe - Andy Flower __________________ THE ULTIMATE CRICKET WEB ARCADE EGGS CHAMPION RIP Fardin Qayyumi (AKA "cricket player"; "Bob"), 1990-2006 RIP Craig Walsh (AKA "Craig"), 1985-2012

15-01-2005, 05:56 PM	#14 (permalink)
BoyBrumby Englishman Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Doing the stance Posts: 42,658	Well here's my picks. I've briefly tried to justify them: Australia: Allan Border- lead Australia out of the dark ages. Not one to dominate by force of personality, he sowed the seeds that have borne the fruit under subsequent regimes. Hard to overestimate his importance in Australia’s current pre-eminence. Bangladesh: Habibul Bashar- only ever winning Bangladesh skipper. Also drew first test with The Windies last year, outscoring their hosts in the first innings. England: Douglas Jardine- England’s most thinking & most ruthless captain. Such was his innovative genius that cricket's rules were changed to counter it. 11 wins from 15 tests. India: Kapil Dev- lead India to surprise triumph in ’83 WC & 2-0 series victory in England. Captaincy seemed to enhance rather than diminish him. New Zealand: Bev Congdon- lead New Zealand to the first victory over Australia. Made New Zealand a serious force in the game. Pakistan: Imran Khan- lead Pakistan to the ’92 World Cup & their first series win in England. His Pakistan were also the only team to seriously contest The Windies pre-eminence. South Africa: Ali Bacher – only four tests in charge, but 100% record against a more than useful Oz team. I absolutely refuse to consider Cronje. Sri Lanka: Arjuna Ranatunga- made the Sri Lankans a force to be reckoned with. A street-fighting politician of a captain, one may have occasion to question his actions, but one can’t help but admire his intense loyalty to his players. West Indies: Clive Lloyd- laid the foundations for two decades of dominance. Used fast bowling to greater effect than any test captain since Jardine. Zimbabwe: Alistair Campbell- lead Zimbabwe to their finest moment, the 1-0 series win in Pakistan in 98/99. Also oversaw creditable 0-0 draw with England in 96/97. __________________ *- As featured in The Independent.* "This is not the time for namby-pamby promising youngsters who might just do something; not the time for building for the future. Pragmatism rules and they don't come more pragmatic than Rogers." - Victor Marks makes the case for stiff-legged and stiff-armed 35 year old left-handers in Ashes squads

15-01-2005, 09:09 PM	#15 (permalink)
tooextracool International Coach Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: not far away from you Posts: 14,304	i find it hard to believe that people can put waugh down as the best australian captain, both the captains before him were far better. __________________ Tendulkar = the most overated player EVER!! Beckham = the most overated footballer EVER!! Vassell = the biggest disgrace since rikki clarke!!

15-01-2005, 12:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
Beleg International Regular Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,400	Pakistan - Imran India - The Patodi Guy? WI - Lloyd Australia - Taylor England - Peter May SA - Cronje Sri-lanka - Ranatuga Zim when it mattered - Flower NZ - Flemming

15-01-2005, 01:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
Tom Halsey International Coach Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Halsway, CW Land Posts: 12,697	Australia - Taylor?

15-01-2005, 01:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
ReallyCrazy Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,202	Australia - Waugh England - Brearley India - Ganguly Pakistan - Imran Sri Lanka - Ranatunga New Zealand - Fleming West Indies - Lloyd South Africa - Cronje

15-01-2005, 02:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tom Halsey International Coach Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Halsway, CW Land Posts: 12,697	Erm, all those players were withing the past 25/30 years... surely from Cricket's 125 years there are some captains who beat the past 25 years? I can think of a fair few contanders...

15-01-2005, 04:33 PM	#9 (permalink)
Zinzan Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: cover point Posts: 9,740	From what I've seen (from 1980) England - Mike Brearley Australia - Steve Waugh Pakistan - Imran India - gavaskar W.I - lloyd Sri lanka - Rangatunga NZ - Flem S.Africa - Cronje ( before the silly buggers began) Zimb - Campbell My top 5 are in no particular order are.... FLEMING- (given his limited resourses over the years) LLOYD -(although captained the greatest Windies side, always lead by example) BREARLEY -( only problem being he wasn't good enough as a player) WAUGH - (learn't from Border + Taylor and took ruthless captaincy to a new level - I think Ponting will probably do the same) CRONJE - Incredible win/loss ratio. Before he lost the plot and threw it all away, he was so well respected world wide as a skipper.

15-01-2005, 05:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
roseboy64 Cricket Web Content Updater Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Jamaica Posts: 18,549	Maybe you were the first he saw...

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