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Thread: Lillie VS Hadlee

  1. #16
    Hall of Fame Member Smudge's Avatar
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    Indeed, Tim,

    His stats before he turned 30, were good, but not great:

    35 tests, 155 wickets @27.34
    http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?s...ields=viewtype

    Whereas in the 51 tests after he turned 30, he took 276 wickets at 19.46 - staggering.

    http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?s...ields=viewtype

  2. #17
    International Regular bryce's Avatar
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    yeah well he played test cricket 'til the ripe age of 39 IIRC

  3. #18
    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
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    Firslty, I loved watching Hadlee bowl. Poetry in motion, absolute control, pretty much a master.

    However, all the greats from that era whether it be IVA Richards, Australians (of Course), whoever, rated Lillee the best. It's hard to argue with that.

    Furthermore, when you add Lillee's stats from World Series (the standard of which was significanlty higher than normal Test Cricket), Lillee's figures are pretty phenomenal.

  4. #19
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thierry henry
    What were the factors against Lillee?? I think over a FC career as long as Lillee's, or Hadlee's, the stats certainly tell the story.
    A large part of the middle of his career wasn't counted - i.e WSC.

    Lillee was also a very intelligent bowler once back injuries meant he'd lost a lot of his pace. If he wasn't he wouldn't have been around for so long.

    I think they are both outstanding bowlers, so wouldn't even attempt to choose between them.
    Last edited by Son Of Coco; 14-01-2005 at 07:31 AM.


  5. #20
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Both were equally as destructive on their day.

    All this 'Lillee's average was not as good' stuff is a joke really. In order to get a feel of how good a bowler Lillee was, you had to watch him bowl..and not just highlights,but a whole spell, or a whole day, or a whole series.

    Massive Zebra keeps bringing this 'Lillee wasnt a complete bowler' stuff on a regular basis. How do you know???? Did you watch him , or are you just stat watching. Of course he had his weaknesses, but so does every single player ever to play the game.

    hadlee was of course a star, the master of bowling what ever length he wanted. Great great bowler, who just got better and better throughout his career. I would say in the early 80's when I saw a lot of both bowlers bowl, I would have put Lillee ahead just, but Hadlee improved after Lillees retiremnet, his control got better,and it is no coincidence that NZ were a pretty nifty little team back then.
    rave down, hit the ground


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  6. #21
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    both all-time greats....i have seen a lot of hadlee and he was just incredible, but haven't seen lillee play although from what i've heard he was a fantastic bowler as well...

  7. #22
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinzan12
    whoops
    It's quite an amazing stat - I think his record in India is something like 26!
    marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good!

    Anyone want to join the Society?

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  8. #23
    Cricket Web Owner James's Avatar
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    Sir Richard Hadlee pretty much answers this question in our interview with him back in August 2003 - http://www.cricketweb.net/resources/...nterview.shtml

  9. #24
    Cricket Web Owner James's Avatar
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    and:

    In the History of Test Cricket

    Sir Richard had the following ratings:

    Ranked by Wisden in the top 10 greatest cricketers of the 20th century

    Ranked 3rd highest bowler of all time behind S.F. Barnes and Bill O'Reilly

    Ranked 4th greatest player (6.47) behing Sir Donald Bradman (8.63), Sir Garfield Sobers (7.00) and Imran Khan (6.70) by a statistical equation

    Ranked 11th bowler for the most wickets per test (5.01)

    Rated the world's no. 1 bowler in 1984, 1987, 1990

  10. #25
    Cricket Web Owner James's Avatar
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    so according to that he eats Lillee for breakfast.

  11. #26
    School Boy/Girl Captain
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    Dennis Lillee was a great bowler but I don't think
    he was as good a fast bowler as Malcolm Marshall (IMO the greatest bowler of all time).

  12. #27
    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James
    so according to that he eats Lillee for breakfast.
    You can manipulate stats for any purpose.

    Both were great bowlers and it probably be left at that.

    However, does either compare with Jeff Thomson of 74-76, i.e. pre-shoulder injury.

    A recent study concluded that the ball he bowled in the speed trial of the '70s that was clocked at 160 ks was actually OVER 170 ks due to a discrepancy between the means by which a bowlers' pace is estimated today vs back then.

    Today, the bowlers speed is the average of 3 readings taken when the ball is less than 1 ft from release. Thommo's speed was the average speed over the full 22 yards.

    In that period he was certainly the quickest and most lethal bowler in living memory.

  13. #28
    First Class Debutant cric_manic's Avatar
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    were talking best not quickest,jeff may have been quick but is nowere as good as hadlee

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinzan12

    I personally think they are hard to separate as bowlers, and also interesting that Lillee was Hadlee's hero .

    Although Hadlee had a slightly better record, many great past players rate Lillee as the best ever. Botham included.

    Botham hated Hadlee man

    As for your other point Im not sure how that is relevant to the debate? Hadlee held Lillee is high regard, but he finished up a better bowler, let alone cricketer

    He actually had Hogg as his idol before Lillie anyway

  15. #30
    Cricketer Of The Year JASON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS
    Lillie VS Hadlee

    Which of these two stacks up as the better player in your opinion?

    I dont know ?

    PS. Who is Lillie ?
    Well picked !!

    Not Lilley either . (D*ck Lilley -England 1896-1909)
    Last edited by JASON; 15-01-2005 at 12:17 AM.

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