Cricket in Non-Test Nations

anzac · 09-08-2002, 08:30 AM

anyone have any idea as to the state of the game in the USA & if the ICC has any game plan to expand in this area?

I have seen the game portrayed in a couple of movies no less (not that that actually means anything - college level both in the 1800s & 1950s - 60s), so perhaps they do have a player base & domestic history & comp of sorts but perhaps limited to within their local states.

Also did anything come out of the exhibition ODI match played there by Aus & Pakistan a couple of years back?

the USA has made big strides re other 'non American' sports re Soccer & Rugby Union over the last decade or so - sure they are not up there with the rest of them yet but they did make the World Cup finals - so I was wondering if cricket was on a similar development path???

:P :P :P

[Edited on 8/13/02 by Neil Pickup]

Anoop · 09-08-2002, 10:17 AM

USA finished 4th in the ICC trophy some time back .. 80's I think.

Still not very popular I think.. Most people don't even know that Cricket is a game.

No big strides though.. most of thier team is expat Asians.

In one way it is good.. otherwise they will ultra commercialise the good game and make it "Sports Entertainment"!! .. (thats what they call wrestling out there, anyway)

Tim · 09-08-2002, 04:49 PM

Cricket will be very hard to push in the USA as its not a game they invented.

I think if Canada make good progress it might rub off on America, but I can't see them playing test cricket in a very long time.

Anoop · 09-08-2002, 06:14 PM

Canada had a big chance to make it. In the 1950s they were almost given test status, but thier board wasn't interested.

scorpio · 09-08-2002, 07:29 PM

I live in us. Cricket will never become popular coz

1. Cricket is played worldwide (atleast one country per continent). ONly way us will play cricket is by developing a separate set of rules..coz thts how they do everything

2. baseball is popular

anzac · 10-08-2002, 09:25 AM

one analysis of popular american sport I heard during the World Cup Soccer when USA hosted it was along the lines that in American sport they tend to throw the ball forward, even in American Football (should be renamed perhaps???) - hence the trouble with their coming to terms with other worlwide sports like soccer, rugby league and rugby union.

this being the case imagine the difficulty faced by a coach to get them to BOWL the delivery - talk about a bunch of chuckers!!!!

lol

aussie_beater · 10-08-2002, 11:03 AM

Cricket as a sport in the US is mostly played by expats from the sub-continent with a sprinkling of folks who came from Aus/Eng/SA and Zim.The teams in my area and most other areas I have seen have that kinda ethnic background.

Very few locals here even know that there is a sport called cricket.

Even baseball is losing ground in the younger generation of sports fans here.I personally find it the most boring sport there is, and has nothing to be compared with cricket.

The reason why cricket cannot catch up with any other popular sports like American Football etc. is that sports here is driven by network television and not cable.That is the reason why even a extremely popular sport like soccer hasn't been able to gain a lot of foothold in the US, until recently.The Major League soccer(MLS) doesn't have any takers among the network television giants and so its not anywhere near to the popularity of say NBA or NFL.And that's inspite of the US having a decent soccer team for quite a while.MLS has got ESPN, but it can take a sport only so far in US.Unless NBC,ABC or CBS come into the picture, no sports can take off in America as of now.

Now where is cricket ? Its just not in the horizon even for satellite broadcasters in many cases.

[Edited on 8/10/02 by aussie_beater]

royGilchrist · 10-08-2002, 11:44 AM

What Bud Selig and co. are doing to baseball, maybe cricket might even become popular in the near future in the US

But seriously though, with the saturation in sports the US has, even a game like soccer cannot break through (and soccer is one of the most popular rec. game in the summer in the US), so cricket has no chance.

Another reason is I think, sports in which americans excel themsleves can become popular, which is why hockey is the lesser popular sport of the big four.

If free agency and trades between teams start happening in cricket, and the US can make an all-star kind of team then maybe cricket would become popular here.

anzac · 11-08-2002, 06:27 AM

for our USA correspondents...

how big are the local comps? sure they may never challenge the big 4 but with a population of 260 mill+ even a small slice could be grounds for a semi decent comp.

i'm not so much worried anout them on the international stage rather than spreading the word of this wonderful game.

as an example when my brother was living outside LA there was a decent local Rugby Union Comp, by that i mean something like 300+ registered players!!!!

Neil Pickup · 11-08-2002, 09:13 AM

I think they acquitted themselves reasonably well in the Americas Cup a bit ago..

Wait for me to drag my news article out of the woodwork

Soggy Americas Cup ends in USA Triumph
Wednesday, March 20, 2002

Defending Champions and World Cup Qualifiers Canada were expected to comfortably defend the trophy before competiton started in Argentina, but many player withdrawals, including that of World Cup hero Sanjay Thurasingham, hit the team hard and the USA hit the ground running in Buenos Aires.

The teams that took part were four Associate ICC Members (a country with a significant cricket base) - USA, Canada, Argentina & Bermuda -and two Affiliates - the Bahamas and Cayman Islands.

The US were the team that started strongest and racked up three early wins, including a key win over the Canadians. The Caymans beat the three "weaker" sides and were tied with the USA on 6 points after 3 games and had a better run rate, looking good for a possible Final place.

Until it rained.

And rained some more. The tournament was so badly hit that in the end the final was cancelled due to so many days' play being lost, and what it came down to on the last day, after Canada beat the Caymans in what turned out to be a key game earlier, was that the Caymans needed to beat the USA to be Champions unless Canada beat Bahamas by such a large amount that their run rate was superior. Argentina played Bermuda in what would probably be a 4th/5th/6th playoff (due to run rate/head to head criteria).

And guess what? It rained. None of the three matches even started and the USA won the tournament in an anti-climactic way, with 8 points from 4 games, and the Caymans were pipped by Canada to 2nd due to the Head to Head result (even though the Islands' run rate was the best in the competition), Bermuda's run rate granted them 4th ahead of new boys Bahamas, who were delighted to have beaten hosts Argentina who disappointed in a pointless sixth.

All in all, the tournament didn't quite live up to expectations (damn rain, we play in South America and we get Manchester all over again) though the Cayman Islands have become the latest team to make a big impression following Namibia at the ICC Trophy and Nepal at the Under-19 World Cup. They might even make a future version of Beach Cricket!

What price Kenya, Bangladesh or Holland to surprise a lot of us come the Champions Trophy?

http://www.cricketweb.net/cgi-bin/ne...6574330,26987,

anzac · 11-08-2002, 04:10 PM

i see a strong american thread with USA, Bermuda, Caymans etc -

but Argentina playing cricket at international comp -

wow !!!!!

:O

Anoop · 11-08-2002, 07:55 PM

Argentina had a good team actually. They were better than US. Bermuda were good too.
Papua New Guinea had a decent team. Israel, Kuwait were one of the worst in the world...

I had done some research into the ICC assosciate trophies..

anzac · 12-08-2002, 08:03 AM

any chance of someone opening a thread re the assosciate nations to keep us all posted?

my previous exposure has been limited to local media so all this is new to me

i was aware of the likes of the teams we see in the WC, but the Americas - where would they have got the influence from not being part of the old 'Empire'?

Neil Pickup · 12-08-2002, 09:45 AM

The situation will be you have English, Aus/NZ and Asian emigrants/immigrants (depends which way you look at it

), who then form a small national association.

The Top Eight Associate Members, as at the last ICC Trophy (Canada 2001), are:

Holland
Namibia
Canada
Scotland
UAE
Denmark
USA
Ireland

Neil Pickup · 12-08-2002, 09:54 AM

http://www-uk.cricket.org/link_to_da.../NATIONAL/ICC/ - ICC Website

Full List of Members, and dates of ICC Membership granting at the relevant level

Full Members
1909 Australia
2000 Bangladesh
1909 England
1926 India
1926 New Zealand
1953 Pakistan
1909-1961, 1991 South Africa
1981 Sri Lanka
1926 West Indies
1992 Zimbabwe

Associate Members (Cricket is Firmly Established/Organised)
1974 Argentina
1966 Bermuda
1968 Canada
2002 Cayman Islands
1966 Denmark
1966 East & Central Africa
1965 Fiji
1998 France
1999 Germany
1969 Gibraltar
1969 Hong Kong
1993 Ireland
1974 Israel
1995 Italy
1981 Kenya
1967 Malaysia
1992 Namibia
2002 Nigeria
1966 Holland
1996 Nepal
1973 Papua New Guinea
1974 Singapore
2001 Tanzania
1998 Uganda
1990 UAE
1965 USA

Affiliate Members (Cricket is Played)
Lots more... I'll put them up later when I have more time!

09-08-2002, 08:30 AM	#1 (permalink)
anzac International Debutant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canberra, ACT Posts: 2,585	Cricket in Non-Test Nations anyone have any idea as to the state of the game in the USA & if the ICC has any game plan to expand in this area? I have seen the game portrayed in a couple of movies no less (not that that actually means anything - college level both in the 1800s & 1950s - 60s), so perhaps they do have a player base & domestic history & comp of sorts but perhaps limited to within their local states. Also did anything come out of the exhibition ODI match played there by Aus & Pakistan a couple of years back? the USA has made big strides re other 'non American' sports re Soccer & Rugby Union over the last decade or so - sure they are not up there with the rest of them yet but they did make the World Cup finals - so I was wondering if cricket was on a similar development path??? :P :P :P [Edited on 8/13/02 by Neil Pickup]

09-08-2002, 10:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
Anoop U19 12th Man Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Trivandrum,India Posts: 260	USA finished 4th in the ICC trophy some time back .. 80's I think. Still not very popular I think.. Most people don't even know that Cricket is a game. No big strides though.. most of thier team is expat Asians. In one way it is good.. otherwise they will ultra commercialise the good game and make it "Sports Entertainment"!! .. (thats what they call wrestling out there, anyway) __________________ "Life is just a demo... but I still can't afford the full version" For some fun visit my website - http://www.smilehouse.cjb.net * Software * Online Games * Pranks * Wallpapers * Source Code * and lots more :)

09-08-2002, 07:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
scorpio U19 Cricketer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: utah,US Posts: 416	I live in us. Cricket will never become popular coz 1. Cricket is played worldwide (atleast one country per continent). ONly way us will play cricket is by developing a separate set of rules..coz thts how they do everything 2. baseball is popular __________________ "We've been doubling sales every 18 months. However, when you start from zero, it takes a long while." -- Stephen Yeo, a marketing director at Windows-terminal manufacturer Wyse, explaining his company's less-than-meteoric rise, to ZDNet UK

10-08-2002, 11:03 AM	#7 (permalink)
aussie_beater State Vice-Captain Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 1,068	Cricket as a sport in the US is mostly played by expats from the sub-continent with a sprinkling of folks who came from Aus/Eng/SA and Zim.The teams in my area and most other areas I have seen have that kinda ethnic background. Very few locals here even know that there is a sport called cricket. Even baseball is losing ground in the younger generation of sports fans here.I personally find it the most boring sport there is, and has nothing to be compared with cricket. The reason why cricket cannot catch up with any other popular sports like American Football etc. is that sports here is driven by network television and not cable.That is the reason why even a extremely popular sport like soccer hasn't been able to gain a lot of foothold in the US, until recently.The Major League soccer(MLS) doesn't have any takers among the network television giants and so its not anywhere near to the popularity of say NBA or NFL.And that's inspite of the US having a decent soccer team for quite a while.MLS has got ESPN, but it can take a sport only so far in US.Unless NBC,ABC or CBS come into the picture, no sports can take off in America as of now. Now where is cricket ? Its just not in the horizon even for satellite broadcasters in many cases. [Edited on 8/10/02 by aussie_beater] __________________ Flames are welcome, but beware of the Backdraft

11-08-2002, 09:13 AM	#10 (permalink)
Neil Pickup Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oxford, England Posts: 26,361	I think they acquitted themselves reasonably well in the Americas Cup a bit ago.. Wait for me to drag my news article out of the woodwork Soggy Americas Cup ends in USA Triumph Wednesday, March 20, 2002 Defending Champions and World Cup Qualifiers Canada were expected to comfortably defend the trophy before competiton started in Argentina, but many player withdrawals, including that of World Cup hero Sanjay Thurasingham, hit the team hard and the USA hit the ground running in Buenos Aires. The teams that took part were four Associate ICC Members (a country with a significant cricket base) - USA, Canada, Argentina & Bermuda -and two Affiliates - the Bahamas and Cayman Islands. The US were the team that started strongest and racked up three early wins, including a key win over the Canadians. The Caymans beat the three "weaker" sides and were tied with the USA on 6 points after 3 games and had a better run rate, looking good for a possible Final place. Until it rained. And rained some more. The tournament was so badly hit that in the end the final was cancelled due to so many days' play being lost, and what it came down to on the last day, after Canada beat the Caymans in what turned out to be a key game earlier, was that the Caymans needed to beat the USA to be Champions unless Canada beat Bahamas by such a large amount that their run rate was superior. Argentina played Bermuda in what would probably be a 4th/5th/6th playoff (due to run rate/head to head criteria). And guess what? It rained. None of the three matches even started and the USA won the tournament in an anti-climactic way, with 8 points from 4 games, and the Caymans were pipped by Canada to 2nd due to the Head to Head result (even though the Islands' run rate was the best in the competition), Bermuda's run rate granted them 4th ahead of new boys Bahamas, who were delighted to have beaten hosts Argentina who disappointed in a pointless sixth. All in all, the tournament didn't quite live up to expectations (damn rain, we play in South America and we get Manchester all over again) though the Cayman Islands have become the latest team to make a big impression following Namibia at the ICC Trophy and Nepal at the Under-19 World Cup. They might even make a future version of Beach Cricket! What price Kenya, Bangladesh or Holland to surprise a lot of us come the Champions Trophy? http://www.cricketweb.net/cgi-bin/ne...6574330,26987, __________________ MSN Messenger: minardineil2000 at hotmail dot com \| AAAS Chairman CricketWeb Black \| CricketWeb XI Captain ClarkeWatch: We're Watching Rikki - Are You? Up The Grecians - Exeter City FC Completing the Square: My Cricket Web Blog

09-08-2002, 04:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
Tim Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Auckland Posts: 7,888	Cricket will be very hard to push in the USA as its not a game they invented. I think if Canada make good progress it might rub off on America, but I can't see them playing test cricket in a very long time.

09-08-2002, 06:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
Anoop U19 12th Man Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Trivandrum,India Posts: 260	Canada had a big chance to make it. In the 1950s they were almost given test status, but thier board wasn't interested.

10-08-2002, 09:25 AM	#6 (permalink)
anzac International Debutant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canberra, ACT Posts: 2,585	one analysis of popular american sport I heard during the World Cup Soccer when USA hosted it was along the lines that in American sport they tend to throw the ball forward, even in American Football (should be renamed perhaps???) - hence the trouble with their coming to terms with other worlwide sports like soccer, rugby league and rugby union. this being the case imagine the difficulty faced by a coach to get them to BOWL the delivery - talk about a bunch of chuckers!!!! lol

10-08-2002, 11:44 AM	#8 (permalink)
royGilchrist State 12th Man Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 787	What Bud Selig and co. are doing to baseball, maybe cricket might even become popular in the near future in the US But seriously though, with the saturation in sports the US has, even a game like soccer cannot break through (and soccer is one of the most popular rec. game in the summer in the US), so cricket has no chance. Another reason is I think, sports in which americans excel themsleves can become popular, which is why hockey is the lesser popular sport of the big four. If free agency and trades between teams start happening in cricket, and the US can make an all-star kind of team then maybe cricket would become popular here.

11-08-2002, 06:27 AM	#9 (permalink)
anzac International Debutant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canberra, ACT Posts: 2,585	for our USA correspondents... how big are the local comps? sure they may never challenge the big 4 but with a population of 260 mill+ even a small slice could be grounds for a semi decent comp. i'm not so much worried anout them on the international stage rather than spreading the word of this wonderful game. as an example when my brother was living outside LA there was a decent local Rugby Union Comp, by that i mean something like 300+ registered players!!!!

11-08-2002, 04:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
anzac International Debutant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canberra, ACT Posts: 2,585	i see a strong american thread with USA, Bermuda, Caymans etc - but Argentina playing cricket at international comp - wow !!!!! :O

11-08-2002, 07:55 PM	#12 (permalink)
Anoop U19 12th Man Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Trivandrum,India Posts: 260	Argentina had a good team actually. They were better than US. Bermuda were good too. Papua New Guinea had a decent team. Israel, Kuwait were one of the worst in the world... I had done some research into the ICC assosciate trophies..

12-08-2002, 08:03 AM	#13 (permalink)
anzac International Debutant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canberra, ACT Posts: 2,585	any chance of someone opening a thread re the assosciate nations to keep us all posted? my previous exposure has been limited to local media so all this is new to me i was aware of the likes of the teams we see in the WC, but the Americas - where would they have got the influence from not being part of the old 'Empire'?

12-08-2002, 09:45 AM	#14 (permalink)
Neil Pickup Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oxford, England Posts: 26,361	The situation will be you have English, Aus/NZ and Asian emigrants/immigrants (depends which way you look at it ), who then form a small national association. The Top Eight Associate Members, as at the last ICC Trophy (Canada 2001), are: Holland Namibia Canada Scotland UAE Denmark USA Ireland

12-08-2002, 09:54 AM	#15 (permalink)
Neil Pickup Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oxford, England Posts: 26,361	http://www-uk.cricket.org/link_to_da.../NATIONAL/ICC/ - ICC Website Full List of Members, and dates of ICC Membership granting at the relevant level Full Members 1909 Australia 2000 Bangladesh 1909 England 1926 India 1926 New Zealand 1953 Pakistan 1909-1961, 1991 South Africa 1981 Sri Lanka 1926 West Indies 1992 Zimbabwe Associate Members (Cricket is Firmly Established/Organised) 1974 Argentina 1966 Bermuda 1968 Canada 2002 Cayman Islands 1966 Denmark 1966 East & Central Africa 1965 Fiji 1998 France 1999 Germany 1969 Gibraltar 1969 Hong Kong 1993 Ireland 1974 Israel 1995 Italy 1981 Kenya 1967 Malaysia 1992 Namibia 2002 Nigeria 1966 Holland 1996 Nepal 1973 Papua New Guinea 1974 Singapore 2001 Tanzania 1998 Uganda 1990 UAE 1965 USA Affiliate Members (Cricket is Played) Lots more... I'll put them up later when I have more time!

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