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Thread: What if...?

  1. #1
    Cricketer Of The Year James90's Avatar
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    What if...?

    The ball hit a helmet, left on the ground by the fielding side and then [the ball]went to the boundary?
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  2. #2
    International Regular Beleg's Avatar
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    Five runs will be awarded because the ball has hit the halmet first. That's my opinion though, can't be sure.

  3. #3
    Cricketer Of The Year Mr Casson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg
    Five runs will be awarded because the ball has hit the halmet first. That's my opinion though, can't be sure.
    But is the ball dead after it hits a helmet?
    'Copperfield,' said Mr. Micawber, 'farewell! Every happiness and prosperity! If, in the progress of revolving years, I could persuade myself that my blighted destiny had been a warning to you, I should feel that I had not occupied another man's place in existence altogether in vain.
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  4. #4
    International 12th Man Crazy Sam's Avatar
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    Law 41.2

    Fielding the ball
    A fielder may field the ball with any part of his person but if, while the ball is in play he wilfully fields it otherwise,
    (a) the ball shall become dead and 5 penalty runs shall be awarded to the batting side. See Law 42.17 (Penalty runs). The ball shall not count as one of the over.

    Law 42.17.c

    (c) When 5 penalty runs are awarded to the batting side, under either Law 2.6 (Player returning without permission) or Law 41 (The fielder) or under 3, 4, 5, 9 or 13 above, then
    (i) they shall be scored as penalty extras and shall be in addition to any other penalties.
    (ii) they shall not be regarded as runs scored from either the immediately preceding delivery or the following delivery, and shall be in addition to any runs from those deliveries.
    (iii) the batsmen shall not change ends solely by reason of the 5 run penalty.


    I think that all means that only the 5 penalty runs are counted, because it is not counted as an actual ball in the over.
    Andrew Symonds 143*


  5. #5
    Cricketer Of The Year Mr Casson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Sam
    Law 41.2

    Fielding the ball
    A fielder may field the ball with any part of his person but if, while the ball is in play he wilfully fields it otherwise,
    (a) the ball shall become dead and 5 penalty runs shall be awarded to the batting side. See Law 42.17 (Penalty runs). The ball shall not count as one of the over.

    Law 42.17.c

    (c) When 5 penalty runs are awarded to the batting side, under either Law 2.6 (Player returning without permission) or Law 41 (The fielder) or under 3, 4, 5, 9 or 13 above, then
    (i) they shall be scored as penalty extras and shall be in addition to any other penalties.
    (ii) they shall not be regarded as runs scored from either the immediately preceding delivery or the following delivery, and shall be in addition to any runs from those deliveries.
    (iii) the batsmen shall not change ends solely by reason of the 5 run penalty.


    I think that all means that only the 5 penalty runs are counted, because it is not counted as an actual ball in the over.
    No I think it means that they would get the four as well, judging by Law 42.17c (ii).

  6. #6
    International Regular Beleg's Avatar
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    'Sometimes fielders close to the bat wear helmets for safety. When not in use, the helmet (or any other loose equipment) may be placed on the field (usually behind the wicket-keeper, where it is unlikely to be hit by the ball). If any such loose fielding equipment is hit with the ball, five runs are scored, either to the batsman who hit the ball or as the appropriate form of byes. The ball is then considered dead and no further runs can be taken, nor can a batsman be run out'

    Source: http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/hoski...on.htm#scoring

    So yes, the ball would be considered dead and five runs would be awarded.

  7. #7
    Cricketer Of The Year James90's Avatar
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    What if the batsman got a bottom edge, past the keeper and into the helmet, or the fielding side were forgetful and left the helmet near the bowler at the other end, the batsman creams a straight drive into the helmet. Does the batsman get 5 or does penalty runs get five?
    Last edited by James90; 04-01-2005 at 05:35 AM.

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    Cricketer Of The Year Adamc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James90
    What if the batsman got a bottom edge, past the keeper and into the helmet, or the fielding side were forgetful and left the helmet near the bowler at the other end, the batsman creams a straight drive into the helmet. Goes the batsman get 5 or does penalty runs get five?
    It will just be 5 penalty runs (extras), as there is no way of asserting how many runs the batsman would have scored had the helmet not been there.

  9. #9
    International Regular Beleg's Avatar
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    James,

    the quote I posted shows pretty clearly that the position where the helmet is placed doesn't matter. As long as a live ball hits a helmet, whether inadvertantly or deliberately, runs are awarded. If the batsman touched it then the runs go to him otherwise they are awarded as byes/leg-byes.

    I don't see where penalty runs come into play in this.

  10. #10
    Cricketer Of The Year James90's Avatar
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    Understood

  11. #11
    Cricketer Of The Year Adamc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg
    James,

    the quote I posted shows pretty clearly that the position where the helmet is placed doesn't matter. As long as a live ball hits a helmet, whether inadvertantly or deliberately, runs are awarded. If the batsman touched it then the runs go to him otherwise they are awarded as byes/leg-byes.

    I don't see where penalty runs come into play in this.
    Five penalty runs are awarded as extras whenever the ball hits the helmet, it's as simple as that. They are counted as extras (not byes or leg-byes, but as penalty runs) and are not awarded to the batsman.
    Here is one such example. The ball hit the helmet in Australia's first innings and went to the boundary, but the only runs awarded were penalty runs, clearly seen in the extras column: Extras (b 7, lb 4, w 1, nb 4, pen 5).
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  12. #12
    International Regular Beleg's Avatar
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    Right. Seems the website I picked the info from is flawed.

  13. #13
    International 12th Man Crazy Sam's Avatar
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    exactly right. i think the two laws of cricket relating to this occurence made it quite clear too.

  14. #14
    School Boy/Girl Captain savill's Avatar
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    Then what if a batsman takes a single, and a wayward through hits the helmet? Is it one to the batsman + 5 pens?

  15. #15
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg
    Right. Seems the website I picked the info from is flawed.
    Not flawed, just outdated.
    The way you put it was the way it used to be, then it was revised and "penalties" introduced.
    Made it a bit simpler IMO - as per usual took Wisden to suggest it, just the same as the no-balls and wides adaptation.
    Still never fails to amaze me that it took 220 years and more for sense to prevail there.
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