Changes required for the Indian odi side

[honestbharani]

I think Jadeja is WAY too over rated. He went to Australia for the Carlton and United Series in 99 and what did he do? Nothing. He has almost always beens shown up on tracks that are even slightly favourable to the bowlers. His fielding is an asset, yes, but we have guys doing the job he did back then in Yuvraj and Kaif and I honestly don't think he can replace Sourav or Laxman. Plus he doesn't bowl much. He is a very good captain but he must deserve a place in the side first.


And about Dinesh Kaarthick, his latest ODI innings was a match winning 70 odd off 50 odd deliveries at no.5 against a good Karnataka attack. So, I think he is worth a try of more than one or two ODIs.



Personally, I agree that both Laxman and Sourav should pick up their games BIG TIME. I think Sourav could and probably would stay on till the WC, as he is an useful seamer on odd occassions. Laxman can only bat and his fielding is only useful for the first 15 overs. After that he generally gets shown up and I can understand why he should be dropped, especially if India have gone back to the 6 batter + 1 keeper formula. As for the bowlers, I still think Bhajji is better than Kumble. Kumble averages 38+ since 1998 and has only gotten worse in the ODI version over the last year. Murali Kartik could be a good option but he bowls too many no balls. Powar was trashed the last time he played an ODI, so it will take some guts on the part of the selectors to bring him back. Bhajji, IIRC, bowled quite beautifully against England in England and has generally been very good in ODIs. I personally would like to see Balaji back in full form and push Zaheer for his place. Agarkar is still an enigma but I don't see too many guys being better than him, even now.

 

[Arjun]

And about Dinesh Kaarthick, his latest ODI innings was a match winning 70 odd off 50 odd deliveries at no.5 against a good Karnataka attack.

Why can't he do this more often? He still has a rather bad List-A average.

I think Sourav could and probably would stay on till the WC, as he is an useful seamer on odd occassions.

If he has to make himself useful, he has to improve his fieldign a lot- to the level of Ponting, Martyn or Symonds. Moreover, these 'useful bowlers on odd occasions' are a weak link in the bowling attack- one of them bowls utter rubbish, and on some days, all of them are taken to the cleaners- Pakistan have done so repeatedly. They need a batsman who can bowl on ALL occasions. Not Ganguly- he's injury-prone. Not Sachin- he should bat through an innings. One of Sehwag and Yuvraj, since both last for very little in an innings, but not Yuvraj- he just bowls utter rubbish- four boundary-balls an over. That leaves Sehwag, with two Sachin overs as a surprise element.

Laxman can only bat and his fielding is only useful for the first 15 overs.

His fieldign is VERY effetive in those overs- it gets the early wickets. In the Asia Cup, Sehwag couldn't hold on to two chances that Laxman would grab easily. Even outside slips, he can hold on to catches. Moreover, he is one of the top batsmen in the side, along with Sachin and Dravid, so if you have to drop him because of bad fielding, you should also drop Ganguly and Sehwag.

As for the bowlers, I still think Bhajji is better...been very good in ODIs.

1. Bhajji often bowls negative skin-saving spells when any of the bowlers is taken for lots of runs. That won't get too many wickets and allows partnerships to be built. He also bowls too many wides. As for his good bowling in England, he didn't get Flintoff out, and the burly Lancastrian massacred the rest of the bowling attack.
2. Kumble is the best BOWLER in the side, Test or ODI. THat alone should keep him in the side. He's miles ahead of every other bowler in this side.
3. Powar attacks the batsmen and brings them on the front foot very often. He tries for wickets all the time, but may also go for a few runs, unlike Karthik, who's negative, but goes for lots of runs. His batting is a good supplement to the top six, and that is reason enough to pick him. He is among the top bowlers in Indian domestic cricket, which should get him in the team as a reserve spinner, ahead of Karthik. He got hit for a few runs in his six overs, but Sachin got thrashed for nearly 7 an over. In the next match, he was bowlign well, but got taken off after just 4 overs. Specialist bowlers have bowled 7+ spells of rubbish, so it's difficult to comment on Powar from what we have seen of him. With his batting, you can safely play a specialist keeper, which the team needs more than ever.

I personally would like to see Balaji back in full form ... even now.

Balaji must bowl straight and not diagonally, pitch the ball further up, add 20k's of pace and outscore Dineesh Karthik and Vidyut with the bat to make himself useful. He has been a liability on the ODI side, with his average of 40 and should not be an automatic choice, except if the pitch offers little bounce. Agarkar's been tried too many times, and clearly, there may be some better than him, whom nobody knows. There are options such as Gagandeep, Bhandari, Salvi, RP Singh, Vikram Singh and a few tall, well-built fast bowlers, but they need more List-A experience.

 

[honestbharani]

Why can't he do this more often? He still has a rather bad List-A average

Because he has played in very few list A games till now.

If he has to make himself useful, he has to improve his fieldign a lot- to the level of Ponting, Martyn or Symonds. Moreover, these 'useful bowlers on odd occasions' are a weak link in the bowling attack- one of them bowls utter rubbish, and on some days, all of them are taken to the cleaners- Pakistan have done so repeatedly. They need a batsman who can bowl on ALL occasions. Not Ganguly- he's injury-prone. Not Sachin- he should bat through an innings. One of Sehwag and Yuvraj, since both last for very little in an innings, but not Yuvraj- he just bowls utter rubbish- four boundary-balls an over. That leaves Sehwag, with two Sachin overs as a surprise element.

No one is gonna injure themselves by bowling 4 overs or so. If they do, they should not be playing. Plus, Sehwag is already hampered by a back injury and that is why he bowls lesser these days. I read that from an interview with him after the ODI series in Pakistan.

His fieldign is VERY effetive in those overs- it gets the early wickets. In the Asia Cup, Sehwag couldn't hold on to two chances that Laxman would grab easily. Even outside slips, he can hold on to catches. Moreover, he is one of the top batsmen in the side, along with Sachin and Dravid, so if you have to drop him because of bad fielding, you should also drop Ganguly and Sehwag.

Fair enough. But still he cannot make it to the XI ahead of Rahul, Sourav, Sachin, Sehwag, Yuvi and Kaif.

Kumble is the best BOWLER in the side, Test or ODI. THat alone should keep him in the side. He's miles ahead of every other bowler in this side.

No, he is not in the ODI version. He has not even taken a 5 wicket haul since 98. He is our best bowler in TESTS not in ODIs.

Powar attacks the batsmen and brings them on the front foot very often. He tries for wickets all the time, but may also go for a few runs, unlike Karthik, who's negative, but goes for lots of runs. His batting is a good supplement to the top six, and that is reason enough to pick him. He is among the top bowlers in Indian domestic cricket, which should get him in the team as a reserve spinner, ahead of Karthik. He got hit for a few runs in his six overs, but Sachin got thrashed for nearly 7 an over. In the next match, he was bowlign well, but got taken off after just 4 overs. Specialist bowlers have bowled 7+ spells of rubbish, so it's difficult to comment on Powar from what we have seen of him. With his batting, you can safely play a specialist keeper, which the team needs more than ever.

I agree with you about Powar, but I am just saying that probably, he won't be picked.


Balaji bowled better in Pakistan and if he can maintain that form, I think he is better than Zaheer. Agarkar's ability with the bat in ODIs is what is helping him hold on for so long. Maybe if one of those guys could offer what he does with the bat, I can see him out of the picture.

 

[wahindiawah]

I don't trust Jadeja, and i don't thinbk he will ever make it to the indian team again!

And why can't he return? just because you don't trust him

 

[Tim]

I can't see Ganguly's fielding reaching the heights of a Ponting or Symonds at this stage in his career.

 

[Deja moo]

Ditto. He just needs to concentrate on recovering the batting form that made him the best in the business. I'd take him then in a blink of an eye, fielding or no fielding.

 

[Arjun]

Fair enough. But still he cannot make it to the XI ahead of Rahul, Sourav, Sachin, Sehwag, Yuvi and Kaif.

You have mentioned Yuvraj. What has he done to prove he's better than Laxman? The only advantage he has is is his strike rate and ground fielding. Look at how often he gets out for scores of less than 30. Laxman has six 100's, while Yuvraj only has two.

No, he is not in the ODI version. He has not even taken a 5 wicket haul since 98. He is our best bowler in TESTS not in ODIs.

He is often bowling to set batsmen and gets defensive fields, which weaken him. IF he bowled to someone fresh and new and had six fielders in catching positions, he can be as effective as he is in Tests, since it's hard to find someoen better than Kumble, even at this stage.

Balaji bowled better in Pakistan and if he can maintain that form, I think he is better than Zaheer.

Zaheer is an aggressive bowler and if he repeats his form in 2002, when he averaged 22, he can be the key strike bowler. He just has to keep playing for a long time. Balaji was no great shakes in Pakistan- he averaged 40, and had just two good matches.

Agarkar's ability with the bat in ODIs is what is helping him hold on for so long. Maybe if one of those guys could offer what he does with the bat, I can see him out of the picture.

Agarkar's ability with the bat may be questionable, given his terrible shot-selection and lack of hitting ability. Any tailender can do what he does with the bat. Irfan Pathan has hit six sixes this year, some of them coming in Perth, Sydney and Dambulla, larger than the grounds in Faridabad, Sharjah and Singapore. If he practises six-hitting and comes out just to hit big shots in the innings, he will be useful. He is technically better with the bat. The reserve seamers such as JP Yadav, Joginder Sharma and Reetinder Sodhi need to play more domestic OD's and get more practice, but one must ask-Why are domestic OD's played in club grounds? And why is the high-profile Challenger just 4 matches long?.

 

[honestbharani]

I think the basic need of the hour is for India to have a really high profile domestic OD tournament with all big teams and players playing in good venues, even have night games during that tournament. It is no coincidence that we are ranked #3 in tests and #8 in ODIs and we don't have a proper domestic OD tourny while we still have the newly improved Ranji for first class games.

 

[Arjun]

The best limited-overs tournament for that puropse may be a revised version of the Ranji OD series, where it doesn't have the 5 zonal toppers, but the top 6 teams overall. That would keep teams out of contention for a victory out of the next phase. Another very important event is the Deodhar Trophy, where the top players from each zone form each zonal team, so you know who are the best in the country. This is the ultimate domestic ODI series, which requires the most attention- big grounds, night matches- and of course, television coverage. In fact, whatever is done with the Challenger Trophy must also be done here.

Harsha Bhogle criticised the Challenger series because it relies far too much on individual performances, rather than of the team. How will it help build a team's performance if it is just 4 matches long? It needs an extension, maybe 9 league matches with a final, or even a best-of-three. The last edition had three evenly-balanced teams, but for the benefit of the main team, it should stay as it is, with a few new players brought in. The India A team should be the A-team, the next best lot, while the B team can be a set of newcomers with strategies to try out. And of course, all ODI series should be played in the premier stadium in each city.

That night games should be payed is a very valid comment. Most bowlers in local OD's are good with the red ball, during the day, but with the white ball, things may be different. Plus, at night, there may be such things as the moisture, which dampens the ball and the pitch. They have to get used to it. The Challenger is played in a big ground, there are 45 players to choose from and all matches are played at night, but it gets over in just 4 days!

 

[Pratters]

I think the basic need of the hour is for India to have a really high profile domestic OD tournament with all big teams and players playing in good venues, even have night games during that tournament. It is no coincidence that we are ranked #3 in tests and #8 in ODIs and we don't have a proper domestic OD tourny while we still have the newly improved Ranji for first class games.

There is a OD tournament being held in Calcutta but it not what I would call very high profile.

 

[SJS]

I don't trust Jadeja, and i don't thinbk he will ever make it to the indian team again!

You are not the only one who thinks so. Most people connected with the game in India do. If it had not been for his political connections and Jaitley/BJP's ties to his political contacts, he wouldnt even have made this much of a come back.

The seniors in the Indian team (read whosoever you want) do not trust him one bit. There is no way he will make it back to the Indian team.

He is finished.

 

[Arjun]

There is a OD tournament being held in Calcutta but it not what I would call very high profile.

Let me guess, matches being played in club grounds? That must be the West Zone wing of the Ranji OD series. Match scorecards are not yet put up on CricInfo.

 

[Pratters]

Let me guess, matches being played in club grounds? That must be the West Zone wing of the Ranji OD series. Match scorecards are not yet put up on CricInfo.

East Zone Leg. I am not sure but I saw teams of Jharkhand and Bengal in the paper. So there was a match on. I can give you the scores from tomorrow's papers of the east zone legs. I o think most matches will be at club grounds. Very small grounds and not ideal for domestic cricket.

 

[Arjun]

I can give you the scores from tomorrow's papers of the east zone legs.

Will they be full scorecards? The Times of India in Mumbai have a match report with some highlights as well as a full scorecard, well, almost, for all the Mumbai matches.

I saw teams of Jharkhand and Bengal in the paper. So there was a match on.

Isn't Jharkhand a one-man team?

I o think most matches will be at club grounds. Very small grounds and not ideal for domestic cricket.

You have as many as 5 teams in the event, and not all of them can be held in Eden Gardens, or the same venue elsewhere, given the format. It would be non-stop action, but they could stretch the programme, couldn't they?

 

[Pratters]

Will they be full scorecards? The Times of India in Mumbai have a match report with some highlights as well as a full scorecard, well, almost, for all the Mumbai matches.

Telegraph also gives full score cards of Benglal's matches

Isn't Jharkhand a one-man team?

I rushed through the papers and m not aware of the composition of Jharkhand but Dhoni is the only known guy from there if I am not won and I dont know if he is playing[/quote]

You have as many as 5 teams in the event, and not all of them can be held in Eden Gardens, or the same venue elsewhere, given the format. It would be non-stop action, but they could stretch the programme, couldn't they?

I am not aware if they are playing all matches together or what. But I am sure most matches are not at eden and will be held at club grounds. Usually you want to inish them ASAP to minimise costs of hotels, times of stay etc.

 

[Arjun]

How many FC quality grounds are there in Calcutta? In Bombay, there is also the Brabourne Stadium, while Delhi have FS Kotla and Karnail Singh Stadium.

 

[Pratters]

How many FC quality grounds are there in Calcutta? In Bombay, there is also the Brabourne Stadium, while Delhi have FS Kotla and Karnail Singh Stadium.

There have been a lot of grounds on which FC cricket has been played. Quality of these grounds is not great apart from Eden Gardens ofcourse.

From what I remember, FC cricket/domestic cricket has been played in Jadavpur University Grouns, CCFC (Indian team als practised there 4-5 years ago) and atleast two more grounds where matches have been played in recent years (2-3 years) Most are very small though and I still cant believe Domestic cricket can actually take place there.

Cricinfo can provide list of all FC grounds though..

And dude, you forgot the CCI! That ground has so much history, I am surprised you missed it.

 

[Arjun]

vAnd dude, you forgot the CCI! That ground has so much history, I am surprised you missed it.

Isn't Brabourne the same as CCI? The stadium is the club's headquarters.

 

[Arjun]

Usually you want to inish them ASAP to minimise costs of hotels, times of stay etc.

In that case, why not hold one match in Calcutta, the other in Jharkhand and a third in any other high-profile venue? These places maintain their grounds better.

As for the costs, do you know where Delhi District Cricket Association's money is spent? On NDTV24x7's Cricket Controversies, advocate Rahul Mehra, who is filing a PIL against BCCI (he is highly anti-Dalmiya), said that large amounts of money are spent on heavy drinks, smoky rolls and playing cards, but nothing is spent on cricket. Is this where money of different cricket associations goes?

The BCCI, as Sidhu said, is the richest Board in the world. Their coffers are overflowing with money. Enough to solve the team's problems of opening batsmen, all-rounders and tearaway fast bowlers. Yet that money has not been put to good use. That reflects on the quality of cricket played by the Indians these days. Can't they subsidise the hotel and travelling costs of the teams?

 

[Pratters]

In that case, why not hold one match in Calcutta, the other in Jharkhand and a third in any other high-profile venue? These places maintain their grounds better.

Having matches in one place helps quickness and costs ad you can have the complete tournament without frequent travel. Not ideal but cost effective and time saving.

The BCCI, as Sidhu said, is the richest Board in the world. Their coffers are overflowing with money. Enough to solve the team's problems of opening batsmen, all-rounders and tearaway fast bowlers. Yet that money has not been put to good use. That reflects on the quality of cricket played by the Indians these days. Can't they subsidise the hotel and travelling costs of the teams?

If the BCCI had any will to help the Domestic game, it would have made sure stars play in these games as much as possible for one. These matches are given no attention to whatsover by BCCI which is sad. Cricket is so popular in India is only partially true. It is totally badly marketed domestically and effort like the that by hockey right now (professional Hockey League) or an iota of an efort to how they care about the domestic cricket and dont want to just get on with it at miminal cost would be some thing we can only wish for.