Shoaib Akhtar = awesome

[tooextracool]

Rhodes didn't deserve more than 10 games, but he got them and, eventually, he proved himself.

except that rhodes was averaging over 40 for all of his first 10 tests, so well done with that sherlock, not to mention of course, the fact that rhodes was a far better fielder than both dippenaar and mckenzie and was worth his place in the side anyways.

Neither McKenzie nor Dippenaar have failed abysmally in their 41 and 31 Tests and so therefore I think they deserve some more chances, though Dippenaar may be on his last at Centurion.

err dippennaar averages 29, which is incidentally just as bad as chopra did at the time we had our argument. yet you said that 29 was nowhere near test class and he deserved to be dropped. 33 of course is nearly as miserable as 29 especially considering that most of his runs have come at home.

 

[tooextracool]

As far as I can tell it's never produced one that turned that much in my scope,

why does that not surprise me?

but certainly the games against England (2001\02), Aus and WI (1999\2000) which have come much closer to being fingerspin-friendly wickets than anywhere else.

the game against england wasnt a turner, we've been through this before. giles got his wickets by getting turn out of the rough. and the fact that vettori got his wickets at over 30 a piece only emphasises that.
as far as the WI game is concerned, this one really shows your desperation. 4 wickets in the entire game were taken by spinners! vettori got 3 of them at an average of over 50 and the other wicket was taken by chanderpaul! well done with that one. so really we've had 2 turning basin reserve wickets since god knows how long.

And that wicket wasn't exactly flat, it was a turner. Yet Styris still scored runs - because everyone scores runs when they shouldn't really be occasionally.

and styris is perfectly capable of playing spin.....your point is?

Err, you were right that Pollock and Ntini were accurate; Terbrugge, Kallis and Boje were all clearly wayward (or else very unlucky - something I find highly unlikely) and this is extremely out-of-character for all three.

so now apparently 2 bowlers being accurate isnt enough to get poor players like styris out? especially when they happen to be the 2 best bowlers in the side?
with regards to the rest, terbrugge is rubbish, i dont see how him bowling rubbish is uncharacteristic. kallis has always been wayward and really has never ever been accurate in his entire career. boje is accurate, but simply not good enough to contend with anyone on a non turner, and styris as ive said earlier, is a good player of spin.

Why on Earth would anyone bowl shorter just because it's away from home? No, the fact is simply that he's been played for the most part much better away from home than he has been at home, which can only be explained as coincidence (and given that most of his home Tests have come against subcontinental teams and a weak West Indies some of it isn't surprising).

he doesnt bowl shorter just because hes away from home, its just that ntini doesnt know how to bowl anything else. in SA his bowling short actually makes him a decent bowler because with the kind of wickets that you get there bowling a bit short there makes you a decent bowler. fact is that in other conditions, particularly england and NZ it makes you poor, and when ntini starts of poorly it usually means he needs to bowl even shorter and therefore we have our overrated pace bowler who cant do anything away from home.

So why has he taken wickets when there's seam-movement sometimes (yes, he's wasted it at others) and hardly ever (except against poor batting) when there's not?

because every bowler can take wickets in seamer friendly conditions sometimes.....

 

[tooextracool]

And given that I've never actually either thought or said that that isn't relevant - and it's also probably best not brought-up again, because there are quite enough posts in this thread, do you not think?

you havent thought that players who succeed at the domestic level must succeed at the international level? rubbish.

 

[tooextracool]

Except that neither side were poor enough to be considered as substandard for Tests - so it's hardly relevant.

why is it only applicable for test class sides? i would think that beating any side proves that you deserved to win.

 

[tooextracool]

Despite the promise shown by McKenzie, De Bruyn and Dippenaar?

mckenzie and de bruyn arent even in the side, and dippenaar averages as much as chopra after 31 tests. clearly they have so much promise!

 

[marc71178]

I believe Dippenaar is also not in the team for the 5th Test.

 

[tooextracool]

Given the number of flat wickets around ATM that's not really especially surprising..

and as ive said 100 times SA only draw on the 'dead flat wickets' not even the 'flat' ones.

Yes, they've rarely won recently, yet still they've beaten England very comfortably once in this series (England have won fairly comfortably once and by-the-skin-of-teeth once).

by the skin of their teeth? they bowled them out in 2 sessions, while SA couldnt even dismiss them in the second inning. not to mention of course that SA would have in all likelyhood lost the 2nd test had it not been for the light.

I personally think there are some very overrated players in the current England side, same as some people think that of the South Africans.

even the overrated players in the england side are far more talented than the ones in the SA side. any team that has players like bell, butcher, pieterson etc on the bunch cant be lacking talent. i'll give you that our bowling attack is overrated though.

 

[tooextracool]

And of course you've never done that with me (whether accidentally or deliberately - probably plenty of both) now, have you?

nope i've always managed to figure out what most people would from your posts, of course you twist and turn all your comments to save face, something that i havent done.

I say he bowled OK not well because I don't judge simply on the averages, I judge on the quality of the batting against it before looking at them.

you've already said that the quality of the NZ batting lineup was decent. and of course we all know that the england batting is fairly good too, at least when they've applied themselves this series.

He bowled pretty well against SL, Pak and WI, yes, but still I think if those matches had been home games for the teams (presuming the conditions were the same) his figures would not have been anywhere near as good. As for the Bangladesh games, well...

and given that hes done well against england and NZ how can you speculate? fact is hes only failed in 2 series, one against india which can be discounted as poor form because india really are rubbish away from home anyways. not to mention of course that they were troubled by hayward of all people in that series.

Mostly, yes (not exclusively - they certainly batted well with the ball swinging at Trent Bridge and swinging and seaming at Headingley) but given that most of the pitches were extremely flat anyway, that's it - India batted well, simple as.

a) you yourself have said that the odd occasions dont prove a thing because anyone can play well on the odd day.
b) neither trent bridge nor headingly were seaming or swinging so well done with that sherlock. certainly even the biggest of fools wouldnt say that trent bridge was anything but a flat wicket considering that there was no result, and 1500 runs scored in 3 innings!

Given Pakistan's lower-order I'd back anyone to bowl them out in that situation

yes with 2 settled batsmen at the crease in a 50 run partnership. pure genius.

and by the sounds of some reports (including those from Pakistani reporters) so did most people watching.

lets see these reports then shall we?

 

[tooextracool]

I believe Dippenaar is also not in the team for the 5th Test.

why is that not surprising? but of course his oh so brilliant average of 29 after 31 tests means that he is 3rd only to bradman.

 

[SJS]

It is perfectly in order for the thread which named a Pakistani cricketer as the accused in the rape allegations in Australia has been closed.

ASccording to the Times of India Bombay this morning, Pakistan Cricket Board Chairman, Sheyaryar Khan has categoricaly denied that the summoning home of the Pakistani cricketer named in these rumours has anything to do with the rape allegations.

I think this is where the matter should be allowed to rest until the judicial procedings are completed. Rumours are not fair to anyone and do no good whatsoever.

 

[marc71178]

I don't think any sane person thought anything else SJS - they obviously overlook the fact he could only bowl a couple of overs in the most recent game and instead prefer to stir things up with no proof.

 

[nibbs]

Shoaib had a rough few weeks. He is still awesome in my books

 

[astute]

*cries*
how can i activate the quick reply option
howwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww