British - losers?

[Craig]

Just out of interest those who knock NFL, have you actually been to any games or not? I have (albiet a High school/collage) and it certainly didn't look soft to me. In fact I found by going to the games was the best way to learn about the sport and learn what's what.

Actually I found it to be fairly quick. I guess just as long as a game of rugby.

 

[Craig]

The US are current Union Olympic Champions but that isn't worth a damn, so past results for basketball don't matter currently either :P

If they bring back rugby to the Olympics (of course it would be sevens and I hope they do) I would back New Zealand to win (hey you can call me biased )

 

[Langeveldt]

I found it strange during the Rugby World Cup in 2003 the English rugby team was still getting critised and in England yet they were still winning their games easily. I thought the goal was to win not put 60 past the opposition in doing so. And there was those silly "pundits" in the English media for having a go at the England cricket team for lossing to South Africa 'A'.

Since when does losing a tour match mean much in the over all grand scheme of things?

Baring in mind England has the most lethal media "build 'em up and shoot 'em down" culture ever... The media is worth nothing in my eyes, and it hardly surprising it stifles the performance of all concerned..

 

[Scaly piscine]

Just out of interest those who knock NFL, have you actually been to any games or not? I have (albiet a High school/collage) and it certainly didn't look soft to me. In fact I found by going to the games was the best way to learn about the sport and learn what's what.

Actually I found it to be fairly quick. I guess just as long as a game of rugby.

Your average NFL game is much longer than a rugby game overall, due to all the breaks and stoppages, the actual time spent playing in a rugby game is longer however.

 

[Swervy]

Your average NFL game is much longer than a rugby game overall, due to all the breaks and stoppages, the actual time spent playing in a rugby game is longer however.

true..however in rugby you find a bunch of players standing around doing nowt for a time as the play is over the other side of the field. in American Football, every player on the field is involved with the play in some sort of way,and the explosion of power at the start of the play is probably unrivalled in sport..this is the reason why there is offensive and defensive personel

 

[Scaly piscine]

true..however in rugby you find a bunch of players standing around doing nowt for a time as the play is over the other side of the field. in American Football, every player on the field is involved with the play in some sort of way,and the explosion of power at the start of the play is probably unrivalled in sport..this is the reason why there is offensive and defensive personel

I dunno what rugby games you watch, players are busy finding getting into position at the very least - in union nearly every player is doing something at any one moment. This compares with gridiron where those personel you mention are only on half of the time.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I found it strange during the Rugby World Cup in 2003 the English rugby team was still getting critised and in England yet they were still winning their games easily. I thought the goal was to win not put 60 past the opposition in doing so. And there was those silly "pundits" in the English media for having a go at the England cricket team for lossing to South Africa 'A'.

Since when does losing a tour match mean much in the over all grand scheme of things?

It didn't surprise me - but then, the media isn't worth paying any attention to in this country.

 

[JASON]

Here's a picture of a rugby player:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39936000/jpg/_39936575_worldrecord_getty.jpg

I think this is a picture of Jason Leonard who was close mid 30's at the time of the Rugby World Cup and had already played nearly 100 tests for England !! (some one can correct me on this ) and the guy played as a Prop forward !
For those who understand the game this position requires really Muscular and Fat blokes who can pack their weight and scrum (or push forward binding their necks with 2 others in the front row) !!

So for these two reasons I think that was the wrong picture to use for comparison !!

Rugby is unique in that different positions require (or suit) different physical attributes !

For instance as a half back (or scrum half) you need short but very nifty and agile fellows !! For Wing you need tall, Athletic speedsters !! For locks you need tall (preferably lanky or slim ) fellows who can be carried on the shoulders of others in line outs to win the ball etc. So the blank comparison of a player from Rugby (union) is difficult, as different players in different positions carry different Physical Attributes which suit the position !! Which is why if you see Successful Rugby Teams they have players with wide variety of physical characteristics !!

Edit -
Infact I have checked it!! Jason Leonard, the guy in the pic is only the third player in Rugby (union) history to have played over 100 tests after Australia's Camper (David Campese) and France's Phillippe Sella !!


My personal opinion - Rugby Union is the toughest !! League is equally tough and the long drawn out season means the have to be extremely fit and versatile !!
Aussie Rules doesn't have as much physical contact as these two (although the players do invariably always communicate their friendship by trading a few blows or punches to the heads !! And sometime there's a free for all at the start of a quarter !! And while jumping to take marks they seem liable to be pulled down and seem to suffer shoulder dislocations etc. quite a lot !!

 

[JASON]

Getting onto the original topic of this thread, Re- British being losers !! I certainly don't think so.

Current Rugby World Cup Champions !!
Current second ranked Test Cricket Team and rising !! (May be number 1 in 2006 .... who knows )
Soccer Team that is cherished by Most of the English speaking world . (including me )

Manchester United the best Soccer Club in the world !!
English Premiership the best soccer competition in the World and viewed and followed by Millions world over, who seem to be unable to get enough of their Teams from across the Globe !!

Sir Steven Redgrave one of the greatest Olympians in the history of the Olympics and one of the greatest Rowers of All time !!

There are many more !! The trouble with people who classify England as losers is because they expect too much !! There was a time when England or Britain controlled and dominated all sports !! Unfortunately that is not the case any more !! But Per head of population Britain has more winners !! I guess the weather is a big disincentive for most outdoor sports in the UK. And comparison with Australia will always make Britain look poorer !! But comparison within Europe would not look poorer IMO.

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Seems like I am one of the loners on this forum today (Christmas Day). This is what happens when you have to work on Christmas day and at work everything is quiet, and you are bored !!

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Manchester United the best Soccer Club in the world !!

Sorry, but I can think of at least ten who are better...

 

[BoyBrumby]

Sorry, but I can think of at least ten who are better...

Amen!

Maybe the biggest, in terms of support & revenue, but certainly not the best.

 

[Richard]

Okay, we are now a class act at cricket.. With guts, pride, passion and application..

Or rather we've been winning for the last 9 months... we've had teams in the very recent past that have been winning series for longer... and more series, for that matter...
We are too quick to jump to the conclusion that we are doing well at cricket. If we win this series, then we're starting to get a case; until then, no.

 

[Richard]

May i ask why is this thread in CC? Should it not be moved to OT?

I thought about the matter but no, OT is too cluttered and serious threads are very, very few.
OT is a nonsense forum, really.

 

[Richard]

Back to subject, avoiding persons in particular for a moment, an issue with the general mentality of the British public is to love someone who doesn't win and hate someone who does.

This week on the Ceefax and Teletext letters pages the slagging off has been directed at Lennox Lewis, David Beckham and the England Cricket Team... For some reason people in this country seem unable to support someone who genuinely has the talent and extra mental level to reach the pinnacle of sport. Tim Henman's never going to be a world number one for any sustained period - unlike an Agassi, Federer, Sampras, yet is every housewife's hero. Lewis was undisputed World Heavyweight Champion, yet all people can say about him is "wouldn't have beaten Tyson in his prime".

It's a general attitude malaise that will spread towards the cricket team soon if they keep winning - or, more accurately, has spread, as the recent letters and several threads on this board whinging about selections show.

The fact of the matter is David Beckham is an incredibly overrated player, has been since 1999 - and the achievements of the England cricket team are overestimated - at present.
Beckham might be a superstar, but with regards football he's been said to have achieved so much that he hasn't.
As to Lennox Lewis, I have no idea because I quite frankly couldn't give a flying fu*k about boxing.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

If we win this test we'll be the first team ever to go through a calendar year unbeaten. (big if mind )

 

[Richard]

The first ever?
I find that totally inconceivable.
First for a while, maybe, but in 1970 there was a team that went 26 Tests without losing - I'm sure that must have been about 3 years.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

The first ever?
I find that totally inconceivable.
First for a while, maybe, but in 1970 there was a team that went 26 Tests without losing - I'm sure that must have been about 3 years.

I'm just going on what it says in this article.


http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2004/DEC/138883_RSAENG2004-05_25DEC2004.html

England's victory in the first Test at Port Elizabeth was their 11th in 12 matches in 2004, their eighth in consecutive Tests, and when the Boxing Day Test gets underway on Sunday, they have the chance to finish the year with an unbeaten record, something that no other side - not even the Australians - will have achieved.

*edit* On 2nd reading I guess he could mean that no other team 'this year' will have achieved. Shrug :P

 

[Magrat Garlick]

England went unbeaten through 1969, for one. (and 1970, but that year included only two Ashes tests, both of which were drawn) Coincidentally, that year they also played both West Indies and New Zealand in the English summer.

 

[Neil Pickup]

The fact of the matter is David Beckham is an incredibly overrated player, has been since 1999 - and the achievements of the England cricket team are overestimated - at present.
Beckham might be a superstar, but with regards football he's been said to have achieved so much that he hasn't.
As to Lennox Lewis, I have no idea because I quite frankly couldn't give a flying fu*k about boxing.

Whilst Beckham may not be the complete player, that Greece game will always stick in my memory as one of the best individual performances I have ever seen. Any Briton attaining this kinds of heights then suddenly becomes a target for abuse for some reason - people calling for them to be removed from the captaincy/dropped from England squad altogether,

With cricket, the facts now say we are the first ever England side to win 8 in a row, yet still people want wholesale changes - we've had the wonderful claims that Graham Thorpe needs to prove himself as a Test batsman and Michael Vaughan is a talentless waste of space and needs dropping.

Also, take the treatment that Radcliffe got in Athens. She went for Gold, pushed herself too hard and missed out. She could quite easily have conserved herself and made a late charge for Bronze/Silver, as one of the Americans did successfully. But no, she went for the top, and her reward was to be castigated from all corners.

As I say, deep-laid social malaise.

Oh, and Man Utd, best club side in the world? Most exploitative with biggest foreign fanbase, yes, best, well - no. Not by a long shot.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Jante law, I believe. "Thou shalt not think thou art good at anything. Thou shalt not fancy thyself as being better than us."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jante_Law

It's funny how everyone seems to think that it's specific to their culture, yet this kind of behaviour is found all over the world...except maybe in America.