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Thread: To enforce the follow on or not

  1. #1
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    Icon6 To enforce the follow on or not

    It seems to me that Ponting and Gilchrist were right not to enforce the follow on against India, NZ and Pakistan - i.e. against good opposition with plenty of time in the match. The reasons are:

    With so much cricket these days, it's easy for the bowlers to get tired, so it's better to give them an innings break
    If the second innings gets off to a good start and the bowlers get tired, then there is more chance of a big second innings score
    It gives the batsmen a chance to get some runs without too much pressure (in the latest match only Langer and Gilchrist got runs in the first innings, so it seems well worth giving the anothers another chance to score)

    I believe, with hindsight, that Steve Waugh put his bowlers and batsmen under too much pressure, always declaring and enforcing the follow on.

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    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pero
    It seems to me that Ponting and Gilchrist were right not to enforce the follow on against India, NZ and Pakistan - i.e. against good opposition with plenty of time in the match. The reasons are:

    With so much cricket these days, it's easy for the bowlers to get tired, so it's better to give them an innings break
    If the second innings gets off to a good start and the bowlers get tired, then there is more chance of a big second innings score
    It gives the batsmen a chance to get some runs without too much pressure (in the latest match only Langer and Gilchrist got runs in the first innings, so it seems well worth giving the anothers another chance to score)

    I believe, with hindsight, that Steve Waugh put his bowlers and batsmen under too much pressure, always declaring and enforcing the follow on.
    all depends on the match situation at that moment
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    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pero
    It seems to me that Ponting and Gilchrist were right not to enforce the follow on against India, NZ and Pakistan - i.e. against good opposition with plenty of time in the match. The reasons are:

    With so much cricket these days, it's easy for the bowlers to get tired, so it's better to give them an innings break
    If the second innings gets off to a good start and the bowlers get tired, then there is more chance of a big second innings score
    It gives the batsmen a chance to get some runs without too much pressure (in the latest match only Langer and Gilchrist got runs in the first innings, so it seems well worth giving the anothers another chance to score)

    I believe, with hindsight, that Steve Waugh put his bowlers and batsmen under too much pressure, always declaring and enforcing the follow on.
    What makes you say that then..fair enough it went a bit pair shaped vs India, but in general when he enforced the follow on,Australia had a pretty comfortable time of finishing the game off

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    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    What makes you say that then..fair enough it went a bit pair shaped vs India, but in general when he enforced the follow on,Australia had a pretty comfortable time of finishing the game off
    Yeah, I don't think the instances of a team being enforced to follow on and then doing what India did would be that high a percentage somehow.


  5. #5
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    It'd be less than 1% lol What Laxman and Dravid did was majestic. However I do feel that it is still in the back of Ponting's mind everytime he has that option.
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    They feel that teams genereally fail to chase scores, that too 300+ in perth with pak batting line-up

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    International Captain LongHopCassidy's Avatar
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    The only incentives NOT to force the follow on are tired bowlers and deteriorating pitches.

    Other than that, I can't understand why Ponting refused to enforce it yesterday.

    His bowlers had been dismissed Pakistan in less than a day, and Pakistan had a terrible mindset.

    Waugh (on paper the most successful Test captain) ALWAYS enforced the follow on, no matter how tired his bowlers or bad the wicket. And all times except one freak occurrence, he won.

    Fear of the 2001 fightback has made Ponting and co. treat such an attacking option like the plague.

    Maybe the gate takings will be healthier?

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    Hall of Fame Member GotSpin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongHopCassidy
    The only incentives NOT to force the follow on are tired bowlers and deteriorating pitches.

    Other than that, I can't understand why Ponting refused to enforce it yesterday.

    His bowlers had been dismissed Pakistan in less than a day, and Pakistan had a terrible mindset.

    Waugh (on paper the most successful Test captain) ALWAYS enforced the follow on, no matter how tired his bowlers or bad the wicket. And all times except one freak occurrence, he won.

    Fear of the 2001 fightback has made Ponting and co. treat such an attacking option like the plague.

    Maybe the gate takings will be healthier?
    I totally agree, the bowlers shouldn't need a rest. They had been only bowling for less than a day and if they could roll the pakistanies for a low total then they would be chasing a small score to win. Though aus sometimes has a few hiccups chasing 100'ish totals
    Don't go chasing waterfalls

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    all depends on the match situation at that moment
    Exactly, you might need to inforce the follow on if you are on the lead on the end of the 4th day or something like that
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongHopCassidy
    The only incentives NOT to force the follow on are tired bowlers and deteriorating pitches.

    Other than that, I can't understand why Ponting refused to enforce it yesterday.

    His bowlers had been dismissed Pakistan in less than a day, and Pakistan had a terrible mindset.

    Waugh (on paper the most successful Test captain) ALWAYS enforced the follow on, no matter how tired his bowlers or bad the wicket. And all times except one freak occurrence, he won.

    Fear of the 2001 fightback has made Ponting and co. treat such an attacking option like the plague.

    Maybe the gate takings will be healthier?
    To me it was a stance of dominance. The Australian way. They're not only intent on beating Pakistan, but rather thrashing them in a no mercy fashion. By not enforcing the follow it shows the confidence that the batsmen will score healthily again and that confidence equates to ruthlessness as it acts on the confidence of the Pakistani bowlers further heading into the next Tests. Let's face it, Pakistan's hopes of doing anything in this series lies with the bowlers and Ponting's move here seems to me to be a ploy to derail that critical aspect. Get at them while they're down.
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    if the pitch looks like it will deteriorate, dont enforce it

    if your bowlers are remotley tired, dont enforce it

    if your bowlers are still good or you are near the end of the day depending on how much lead you want, enforce it
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  12. #12
    International Captain LongHopCassidy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk
    To me it was a stance of dominance. The Australian way. They're not only intent on beating Pakistan, but rather thrashing them in a no mercy fashion. By not enforcing the follow it shows the confidence that the batsmen will score healthily again and that confidence equates to ruthlessness as it acts on the confidence of the Pakistani bowlers further heading into the next Tests. Let's face it, Pakistan's hopes of doing anything in this series lies with the bowlers and Ponting's move here seems to me to be a ploy to derail that critical aspect. Get at them while they're down.
    If they wanted to be truly dominant, wouldn't they aim for an innings victory/victory in three days?

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    Cricketer Of The Year James90's Avatar
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    Why need truly dominent, you need to ensure that you win. Now even if Australia flopped in their second innings Pakistan would need something like 400 which i don't see them getting. However it's highly likely that they could have hit 400 in the third innings and Australia can't chase small totals. It will be hard to bat on the pitch in the fourth innings. I'm not a fan of the follow on unless you've batted for like the first 3 days and need to finish the test in time
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  14. #14
    International Captain LongHopCassidy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James90
    Australia can't chase small totals.
    Remember the last big run chase against Pakistan.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongHopCassidy
    Remember the last big run chase against Pakistan.
    Yeah, but that was a big one - it's the small ones we screw up.

    I'm not that upset about Ponting's follow-on decision yesterday (in comparison to the decision not to enforce it against NZ, which I thought was unnecessarily dangerous, because of the threat of weather playing a part in the outcome). There's an issue with Australia's older bowlers that need some protecting, and in a way, this is kind of like a complement to the rotation system, in terms of preserving energy and staving off injury.

    I do kinda wonder if Ponting will ever enforce a follow-on ever, though.
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