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Thread: Harbhajan's Chucking row - more BS

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    State 12th Man JustTool's Avatar
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    Harbhajan's Chucking row - more BS

    So now, when you have no evidence, you isinuate to detroy bowlers. And curiously enough all the bowlers malined are from the sub-con: Murali, Shoaib and now Harbhajan. Beleive me, Brett Lee's action is far worse than Shoaib's...

    These referees and umpires should be fired for making such unsubstantiated crap public

    Bhajji's bowling: Yeh kya chucker hai?
    By: Debasish Datta
    December 4, 2004
    ---------------------------------------------------------------


    REPRIEVE:
    Harbhajan Singh
    Kolkata: Harbhajan Singh’s suspect bowling action during the second Test against South Africa will not be reported to the International Cricket Council for want of thorough evidence.

    But New Zealand match referee Jeff Crowe stressed yesterday that he and umpires Daryl Harper and Simon Taufel, who officiated in the second Test match between India and South Africa that concluded in Kolkata, had doubts over his action.
    “We had a doubt over his action. So we decided to check it. But after viewing the videotapes, we found that we could not come up with anything concrete.

    There was no way we could determine the degree of flexion with the naked eye,” Crowe said.

    The videotapes were acquired from the Cricket Association of Bengal. But the trio could not determine whether the degree of flexion was more than 15 degrees.

    Harbhajan Singh was surprised when he learnt that his action had come under the scanner again.

    “I have played 41 Test matches with the same bowling action. So it is surprising they should suspect the action now. Also, Harper has been an umpire in many Tests I have played,” Harbhajan said from Delhi yesterday.

    “I am happy and relieved that the umpires will not be reporting my action,”
    he added.

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    We feel so sorry for you cricketers on the subcontinent.. Forever persecuted, no representation on the ICC panels.. It must suck having to get out of bed every morning.. Go cry me a river.
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    State Vice-Captain viktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustTool
    So now, when you have no evidence, you isinuate to detroy bowlers. And curiously enough all the bowlers malined are from the sub-con: Murali, Shoaib and now Harbhajan. Beleive me, Brett Lee's action is far worse than Shoaib's...

    These referees and umpires should be fired for making such unsubstantiated crap public

    Bhajji's bowling: Yeh kya chucker hai?
    By: Debasish Datta
    December 4, 2004
    ---------------------------------------------------------------


    REPRIEVE:
    Harbhajan Singh
    Kolkata: Harbhajan Singh’s suspect bowling action during the second Test against South Africa will not be reported to the International Cricket Council for want of thorough evidence.

    But New Zealand match referee Jeff Crowe stressed yesterday that he and umpires Daryl Harper and Simon Taufel, who officiated in the second Test match between India and South Africa that concluded in Kolkata, had doubts over his action.
    “We had a doubt over his action. So we decided to check it. But after viewing the videotapes, we found that we could not come up with anything concrete.

    There was no way we could determine the degree of flexion with the naked eye,” Crowe said.

    The videotapes were acquired from the Cricket Association of Bengal. But the trio could not determine whether the degree of flexion was more than 15 degrees.

    Harbhajan Singh was surprised when he learnt that his action had come under the scanner again.

    “I have played 41 Test matches with the same bowling action. So it is surprising they should suspect the action now. Also, Harper has been an umpire in many Tests I have played,” Harbhajan said from Delhi yesterday.

    “I am happy and relieved that the umpires will not be reporting my action,”
    he added.
    C'mon dude, just chuck it! there is no controversy. the newspapers are creating one.
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  4. #4
    International Captain Buddhmaster's Avatar
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    I don't know how anyone can say that anyone is a bigger chucker then Shoib?


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    SJS
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    Without getting into who chucks and who doesnt, it has always amazed me how selective 'vision' can be in different parts of the world !

    A Pakistani is scandalised if anyone mentions Shoaib throws but so many non-Pakistanis seem to be absolutely certain that he does, an Australian will kill you (if words and sarcasm could) if you so much as hinted on the possibility of 'illegality' of Lee's action but there are plenty of non Australians who are convinced that he does flout the law, an Indian fan is outraged if you mention Harbhajan's name in the above august company and a Sri Lankan is disgusted by all this hoo-haa about the great Murali and his action believing it to be the great white conspiracy.

    Everyone is convinced they are right while others are biased or visually challenged. AND everyone swears by his/her objectivity !!

    Clearly opinions are coloured less by objectivity and more by nationality and passion.
    Last edited by SJS; 04-12-2004 at 08:54 PM.

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    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS
    Without getting into who chucks and who doesnt, it has always amazed me how selective 'vision' can be in different parts of the world !

    A Pakistani is scandalised if anyone mentions Shoaib throws but so many non-Pakistanis seem to be absolutely certain that he does, an Australian will kill you (if words and sarcasm could) if you so much as hinted on the possibility of 'illegality' of Lee's action but there are plenty of non Australians who are convinced that he does flout the law, an Indian fan is outraged if you mention Harbhajan's name in the above august company and a Sri Lankan is disgusted by all this hoo-haa about the great Murali and his action believing it to be the great white conspiracy.

    Everyone is convinced they are right while others are biased or visually challenged. AND everyone swears by his/her objectivity !!

    Clearly opinions are coloured less by objectivity and more by nationality and passion.
    That is always going to be case in a game played by teams which are representing their respective countries.



    On another note, the ICC have denied these rumours. So we must let it go now, IMHO.
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    International Captain Buddhmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS
    Without getting into who chucks and who doesnt, it has always amazed me how selective 'vision' can be in different parts of the world !

    A Pakistani is scandalised if anyone mentions Shoaib throws but so many non-Pakistanis seem to be absolutely certain that he does, an Australian will kill you (if words and sarcasm could) if you so much as hinted on the possibility of 'illegality' of Lee's action but there are plenty of non Australians who are convinced that he does flout the law, an Indian fan is outraged if you mention Harbhajan's name in the above august company and a Sri Lankan is disgusted by all this hoo-haa about the great Murali and his action believing it to be the great white conspiracy.

    Everyone is convinced they are right while others are biased or visually challenged. AND everyone swears by his/her objectivity !!

    Clearly opinions are coloured less by objectivity and more by nationality and passion.
    Good point, but i must say i'm a little suspect of Lee's action. I don't think he necessarily chucks it, but i can see how people would say it.

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    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    That is always going to be case in a game played by teams which are representing their respective countries.



    On another note, the ICC have denied these rumours. So we must let it go now, IMHO.
    Yes I suppose so. But then we should give up the veneer of objectivity that is so vehemently claimed by many.

    I disagree that this need be the case. Not with those who would like to be termed as 'students' of the game.

    It should be posible to discuss cricketing matters, legality, skills etc dispassionately. Of course, we all deserve our passion and need to display it when supporting our teams on the grounsd and even in front of the telly. But when we come here for what, I presume, is supposed to be an intelligent and informed exchange of views, passion does not have a place.

    This is just my opinion. It need not be the majority view.

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    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhmaster
    Good point, but i must say i'm a little suspect of Lee's action. I don't think he necessarily chucks it, but i can see how people would say it.
    I think his action is now very good. He might be contravening the law (the original law) occasionaly but it is not something I have noticed of late and it would not appear to be deliberate.

    Shoaib's action, with due regard to my Pakistani friends here is slightly more dubious and I am sure most batsmen who face him would feel the same.

    Murali clearly bends his arm and for me that contravenes the old law. Rest is semantics and technicalities. I sympathise with his physical constraints but I think going for the doosra, which is impossible to bowl with a straight arm, is further showing a disregard for the rules because he could get away with the reason of his hyper-extension problem.

    When someone like Harbhajan will bowl the doosra, it will not give him the protection of the hyper extension argument. I think this is not fair by any stretch of imagination.

    Again, these are my views and are purely based on the original law. I dont think much of ICC's new , convoluted, ammendments to the same. Before anyone jumps on me, I realise that what I think of ICC's new law doesnt count. But again this is my point of view.

    On Harbhajan, if he continues to bowl the doosra, I dont think how he will not contravene the old law. The new one gives some leway to everyone but I dont understand how a bowler can so accurately ensure the angle by which he bends his elbow in a game ! So they will all try it and hope they are within 15 degrees. This is a pathetic situation and Sunil Gavaskar and his committee need to be roundly condemned by all cricket lovers.

    Harbhajan

  10. #10
    International Captain Buddhmaster's Avatar
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    I don't think Harbhajan's action as anywhere near as bad as Murali's.

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    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhmaster
    I don't think Harbhajan's action as anywhere near as bad as Murali's.
    Of course it is not. In fact , Harbhajan is not going to be called by any umpire under the old regulation also, so clean is his normal action. I am just expressing the apprehension that if he insists on bowling the doosra in Murali's style then he will get into that territory but with the new regulation it is an unlikely one to be called.

    Murali , on the other hand, would be called for almost all his deliveries under the old regime. This may be partially or wholly due to the hyper-extension problem, I dont want to claim to be an expert on that. But visually it would appear to be a bending of the elbow and many umpires would have called it.

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    In-game testing is the only way to resolve these types of situations. The technology is now available, so if umpires/referees consider an action doubtful enough, they should have access to systems that would enable them to check their perceptions.

    When I first heard about the "report", all I could think was that Harbhajan had better straighten by more than 15 degrees, or this would explode. So I think it's good that upon reviewing the tapes, they withdrew their complaint. If they can't perceive it on the tapes, odds are they can't perceive it clearly in split seconds at the ground.

    As it is, by the end of it all, it seems like a storm in a teacup.
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    International Captain Buddhmaster's Avatar
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    Why do they have to bowl the doosra. Both Murali and Harbhajan are capable of getting alot of wickets without this "delivery", so why bother?

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    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhmaster
    Why do they have to bowl the doosra. Both Murali and Harbhajan are capable of getting alot of wickets without this "delivery", so why bother?
    I agree. It is a better bet to bowl the away floater like Prasanna used to bowl but it moves less off the wicket than the doosra.

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    International Captain Buddhmaster's Avatar
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    I was just wondering, was the doosra at one time banned?

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