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Thread: Eng vs. SA head to head?

  1. #1
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    Eng vs. SA head to head?

    I'm using the last test against the West Indies as a guide, I don't usually concern myself with the Pommies comings and goings except when they're playing SA and their ritual 4 yearly massacre at the hands of the Aussies over that small pile of debris, so I may not be completely clued up on who's in or out.

    I'm not going to do an individual head to head, I'll leave that to people in the know.

    Captains:
    Smith vs. Vaughn
    It's gotta be Vaughn sadly, Smith did very well in India without a spinner though, and that'll stand him in good stead. He still hasn't broken the age old SA habit of playing to a plan despite the conditions. It's all good when the going's good, but it's disheartening to see SA sometimes when a batsman is laying into them and they don't know what to do.

    Opening batsmen:
    England probably shade it, as they have a slightly more settled partnership. Smith & Hall looks a bit dodgy, Smith & Gibbs, just as dodgy due to Gibbs poor form if, however, Gibbs hits that heavenly high note, it'll be a long day in the field for England.

    Keepers:
    Boucher vs. Jones
    Boucher beats Jones, cos I don't know much about Mr. Jones. It's wierd seeing someone other that Stewart keeping for England.

    Spin:
    Giles vs. Boje
    Boje is a more than decent batsman, much, much better than Giles. I also happen to think he's a better bowler than the King of Spain as well. God help us if he get's injured. Giles is Warne compared to the other miserable sods we have. Though Boje is at #29 on the PWC ratings & Giles is at #13, hmm. I don't see them playing a massive part anyway. Maybe at St. George's Park, they'll both get the ball to deviate a centimetre or 2. This is SA, we don't have spinners for a reason.

    Allrounders (The battle royale):
    Kallis vs. Flintoff
    We shall have to see, shan't we? I'd still rate Jakes as being better, but that's 'cos I'm South African. Flintoff's the better bowler right now, Kallis is the better batsman.
    Zander de Bruyn & Andrew Hall vs. ........
    Zander & Andrew beat Nobody hands down

    Seamers:
    Pollock vs. Hoggard
    I think Pollock is still world class, Hoggard is good, but he's not that good. An honest journeyman vs. one of the best allrounders around

    Zander de Bruyn & Andrew Hall vs. Simon Jones or James Anderson
    Jones has a 1st class bowling average in the 30's and he can't bat for peanuts, he's got a bit of pace about him, but nothing deadly. I don't even think Anderson is on this tour. He can go from the shite to shite in 0s flat. Too inconsistent to even rate. SA wins

    Ntini vs. Harmison
    Harmison by a street.

    Overall:
    England probably have the in form top order, but SA have batting up the wazoo, irrespective of what team gets picked, we'll have competent batsmen right down to #9. If Bouch plays, then we'll have Nicky coming in at #10. He's got 2 ODI Hundreds, he has.

    England bat down to #5 I think..... Seriously, SA have the upper hand in the batting dept.

    SA's better manned bowlingwise as well. If Kallis is fit, then it's Kallis, Hall, de Bruyn, Boje, Pollock & Ntini with some fun from Rudolf & Smith vs. Jones/Anderson/Whoever, Flintoff, Giles, Hoggard, Harmison & an occasional Vaughn.

    I think SA is certainly good enough to win, I also think England have enough to win as well. On paper, I reckon SA are shading it.

  2. #2
    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    Do we know that Boucher is going to be in the side though?

    Without the man on the left, its going to be 2-1 to England
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    Jennings is pushing for him according to today's paper. I'd have in my side. He's had a few nice knocks in domestic cricket.

  4. #4
    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    Good to hear, I agree he needed the kick up the backside, there is so much for MB to do this winter..


  5. #5
    Just to bring a bit of much needed reality into this...

    Giles is a better bowler than Boje, SA basically have 2 good bowlers and the rest are rubbish - Hoggard especially,Anderson/Jones with any sort of form are better. Over the past year Flintoff is a better batsman and bowler than Kallis - Kallis hardly seems to bowl anyway, but I'd rate Flintoff's bowling to be roughly equal to Ntini in these circumstances. Jones is a better batsman than Boucher certainly, Boucher is probably a better keeper but not enough to make him a better player overall. SA's openers if Gibbs plays are better but their middle order except for Kallis hasn't really done much and doesn't match up at all to Butcher Strauss Thorpe Flintoff.

  6. #6
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langeveldt
    Good to hear, I agree he needed the kick up the backside, there is so much for MB to do this winter..
    What about AB De Villiers, if Boucher is good surely he's superb?
    Mind, he has only had a handful of games so far, but he certianly looks superb on the limited evidence.
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    Giles' career bowling average is 36, compared to Boje's 32. Strike rate of 81 vs. 69. How does Giles end up being the better bowler? Anyway, it's 2 bald men fighting over a comb. Can we at least agree that neither will have a large effect on the series?

    I do agree, England have the better lineup person for person, but I think SA's batting depth will negate that. The worry is the bowling, I think Nel or Langeveld will be drafted in at some point, and one of the allrounders will have to make way. I think Nel is equivalent to Anderson/Jones, he blows hot and cold as well, Langeveld's not much pacewise, but he can swing it around. If Ntini's rubbish outside SA, he's top class at home, I think his average is in the low 20's. That's bloody good by any reckoning. I'd certainly rank him next to Harmison not Hoggard at home.

    I don't know much about Jones, except he's got really bad stats, I can't see how he's going to be more threatening than anything SA have.

    I'm not saying SA are roads ahead of England, I'm just saying SA *can* win this series, unlike what some English journo's in the paper were saying.

  8. #8
    International Regular a massive zebra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine
    Just to bring a bit of much needed reality into this...

    Giles is a better bowler than Boje, SA basically have 2 good bowlers and the rest are rubbish - Hoggard especially,Anderson/Jones with any sort of form are better. Over the past year Flintoff is a better batsman and bowler than Kallis - Kallis hardly seems to bowl anyway, but I'd rate Flintoff's bowling to be roughly equal to Ntini in these circumstances. Jones is a better batsman than Boucher certainly, Boucher is probably a better keeper but not enough to make him a better player overall. SA's openers if Gibbs plays are better but their middle order except for Kallis hasn't really done much and doesn't match up at all to Butcher Strauss Thorpe Flintoff.
    That is one of the most unashamedly biased posts I have read in a long time.
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    I'm really looking forward to the series, even though i would say england come out slightly ahead head to head, i, without bias would say south africa are slight favourites

  10. #10
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    I suppose a composite side might look like this.

    Smith, Gibbs, Vaughan, Kallis, Thorpe, Flintoff, Boucher, Pollock, Giles, Harmison & Ntini.

    If so, that's 6 from SA & 5 from England. Whatever that proves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid
    I suppose a composite side might look like this.

    Smith, Gibbs, Vaughan, Kallis, Thorpe, Flintoff, Boucher, Pollock, Giles, Harmison & Ntini.

    If so, that's 6 from SA & 5 from England. Whatever that proves.
    Perhaps Strauss over Gibbs on current form and Jones over Boucher.
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    Whatever it means, it's a side that'll give most opposition teams a bit of a fright, except maybe on the subcontinent. I forsee a very twisty, turny Eden Gardens wicket if that team played India.

    I'd still have Boje in there over Giles.

  13. #13
    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twctopcat
    Jones over Boucher.
    Nah!!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    Nah!!!
    Agreed..

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by a massive zebra
    That is one of the most unashamedly biased posts I have read in a long time.
    Point bits out that are 'unashamedly biased' then instead of just quoting everything like someone who can't back up their point would do.

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