• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

In the wake of India's refusal to play Pakistan Should Pakistan Play them in The ICC or the WC?

lord_of_darkness

Cricket Web XI Moderator
lol If pakistan wants to refuse playing in icc or wc why do they bother playing cricket , india is doing a wrong thing by not playing pakistan , cricket should be played as cricket and political or any other interferences should be brought up in cricket
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Sometimes, the use of sport for political ends is justified (now that's a pretty radical statement, and is not necessarily one to which I subscribe).
When the target was a racist, fascist system such as existed in South Africa more than a decade ago, it's arguable that it is a good thing.
When the use of sport is to glorify a system (USSR, East Germany, Chinese drug cheats assisted by former eastern bloc 'chemists', USA even), it's arguable that it is a bad thing.
When the 'cause' is a petty border dispute, then in the big scale of things, MORE sporting links should be established, not LESS.

I know that some people are going to scream at me for suggesting that the word 'petty' can be used to describe the dispute over Kashmir, but I actually think that borders, territories, yes, even countries at the end of the day are totally irrelevant in the big scale of things.
The mentality of government is akin to a big cow pasture, filled with ants nests. Without it, you have no direction. With it, you establish an area near your nest. This area grows until it 'bumps into' another area near another nest. We then have a flipping good punch-up and refuse to play them in the ant Olympics.

For crying out loud, we're all ants, aren't we? Let's just have one big nest. Then we only have to worry about the cows (sorry Hindus, it wasn't that good an analogy anyway, but you get my point?).
 

Anoop

U19 12th Man
I very strongly disagree with you guys. Yes, sports can sometimes destroy barriers.. but that is not the case here.

I don't think it is a very good thing to do when each day soldiers (and people) die on the border each day. Playing Cricket is certainly not going to help the situation in any small way...

In the first place this war is wrong.. First India and Pakistan should stop the fighting and only then should they play cricket

Playing against them on one part of the country and fighting against them on the other part is just not right..

stop the war, then play cricket...
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
I apologise for what could be construed as me trivialising the matter, but it wasn't meant that way.

Yes, people are dying - caught up in an affair that they wish would just go away.

The 'representatives of the people' are to blame - whether elected or not. If they were forced to put gloves on and settle things by going 4 two-minute rounds, there wouldn't be any wars.

One world. One people.
 

Alcatraz

Cricket Spectator
I agree with you anoop but the point that radical raises needs to be addressed, why single out cricket? For that matter we should stop all bilateral sport. We continue to compete in other arenas and single out cricket.
I just cant help but agree with eddie here that our representatives are to blame.
 

sir middle stump

School Boy/Girl Captain
the government actually has a very simple answer to all those rambling on and on about cricket being singled out in the current situation.....

Cricket is a game quite unique among all games.....it is a game where the spirit of toghetherness is most evident.I mean which other game can one think of where the 2 teams sit down toghether for lunch and tea....
The game is meant to be played in a gentlemanly fashion with both teams expected to exhibit a sense of togetherness ( for lack of a better word )...
I do not see how this can be accomplished when the armies of the 2 countries are eyeball to eyeball on the border...does one mean to say that it is irrelevant that our soldiers die at the border for us, and our players still say 'bravo,well done' when a player from the otherv team completes a century for example? are we to applaud them?
 

Anoop

U19 12th Man
Yes I do agree that the reprensentatives are to blame. Sir Middle Stump, is right, about the togetherness. But I'm not sure whether Cricket should be singled out.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
While all this fighting is happening on the Kashmir border, and soldiers are dying every day, there is little sense in playing any game against each other atleast on each other's soil.

Both countries hardly have a good diplomatic relationship, why then cricket or any other game? If they are playing in a larger, prestigious competition, that too on neutral ground, there might be a case of playing each other(cos withdrawal would then hurt both the teams more than playing).

We know that this useless and long drawn out war is a result of corrupt, self-seeking politicians and parties and religious fanaticism on both sides, but it has been going on in one form or another for over 50 years claiming lives in the tens of thousands and we just cannot turn a blind eye to it.
 

yorker

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
"Both countries hardly have a good diplomatic relationship, why then cricket or any other game?"
Yeah, but do u know that US and Iran doesn't have diplomatic relationship for yrs , yet they have been playing football and wrestling!
India play with Pak in tennis and other game, yet when it comes to cricket it refuses to play.It really doesn't make sense, there is more to it than just the Kashmir War, Uma Bharti is on record having said that a loss to Pak in Cricket is bad for the ppl's sentiments!

What are u gonna get by not playing cricket? if its a national issue then u should avoid playing ALL sports and at every level.Playing cricket at major tour but not on home land is dumb and stupid.
 

Anoop

U19 12th Man
US and Iran never directly fought in a war. Also thier soldiers are not on the border waiting for an order to shoot the guys beyond it.

There is nothing about winning or loosing. I'm sure the current Pak team will beat India very comprehensively, but that's not the point.

Playing cricket is not going to do anything to the situation and for that matter any sport.
 

scorpio

U19 Cricketer
Yorker you are right to a certain extent. However it is not a totally stupid decision..

Cricket is the highest profile sport in india and pak by a distance. So politicians are tryin to take advantage.

On the other hand not playing pak hits them where it hurts the most and with no one willing to play pak..i guess you cant blame us much.

But lets stay of from politcs guys..
 

yorker

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Anoop--- The relationship b/w Iran and US is much worse than that b/w India and Pak.Many Americans have been killed by Iranians and Iraninan by American or US allies.Just coz they aren't fighting on the border doesn't change the scenario much! Recall Eng and Arg playing football while their was a war going on b/w them! Also , winning and losing is part of the game, u feel it the same as i do but ur POlitician take it differently!


Scorpio-- India have not played in Pak since ages, things were different b/f 9/11.
Now that the situation on border have cooled down, Indian foreign minister came upo with another excuse when asked about resuming cricket ties, he said that we have no objection to it but ur players won't be safe in Pak! U can always come up with another excuse.
 

Anoop

U19 12th Man
Ok Agreed Yorker..

US might have played Iran in Soccer or some other sport.. That's quite different. As Scorpio said Cricket is a high profile game in the sub continent and the cricket community is so close knit that you'll feel something. 100 nations play active soccer. 10 nations play active cricket.. there's a difference.

I'm stopping right there or I might end up with some stupid arguments.

I think my point is clear.
 

yorker

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Ok, lets agree to disagree.

Many Indians share my point of view that Cricket alone shouldn't be singled out, if India doesn't play with Pak in other sports as well then it make sense.
Also Football is a high profile game in Iran!
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
My point is that they should not be played in either India or Pakistan because of the military standoff between the two countries.
Even though it hasn't blown up to be a full-scale war, the border skirmishes, proxy war and the amount of casualties, military and civilian over a stretch of time have been nothing short of outright war. Also, there are enough hotheads and fanatics in both countries for the players' safety to be at risk. I understand that cricket has been singled out because it is the most high-profile game in both countries, but I agree that in this situation, it should extend to other games as well.

If it is a competition where other countries are also participating and on neutral ground like the world cup, then there might be a case of participating. Remember that in the '96 world cup, West Indies and Australia refused to play in Sri Lanka and forfeited their games saying they feared for their players' safety. These countries were not at war with SL, why did they decide that? India has much more of a case than those two to avoid playing in Pakistan.
 

yorker

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Anil,
I have already answered the question that u have posed.India have been refusing to play with Pak since a LONG TIME, not just after 9/11.The concern of players security in Pak is a RECENT development, like Aus is willing to play on neutral ground at present, India is not willing to play atall!! India doesn't have a case !

As for fanatics, Pak played in India despite threats, i'm against bending to the wishes of crazy fanatics.Also, Indian players won't be at a risk at Pak, its the white guy that the fanatics are after!
Yeah, if u say that they shouldn't play any game atall, then its fine with me.
 

Gotchya

State Vice-Captain
Guyz whatever we say does not have any bearing upon what is actually going to happen, but then thats the case in so many things. But i think that it boils down to the political conotations in India, yes i too heard that comment abt " a loss to pakistan is sentimental thing "

As for the earlier comments from eddie, well it's down to the question that Is sports the way to strengthening relationships or is it an aftermeth of good relationships? lets see who can answer this one!! :)

Although i do not agree that cricket should be singled out, but in India, and to a lesser extent in Pakistan cricket has become more then just a game. I think that it has become a sort of vent for all the ppl'z frustrations, they view a loss or a win reflected in their own lives.

The politicians are just not doing a very good job by nurturing this attitude. They are the ones (as always) pulling all the threads. We can just hope that something bright comes out of all this.
As for now we cant do anything but argue among ourselves!!

(Hey this thread shouldn't have been here in the first place)

Hope no one got offended eh ? :)

[Edited on 8/8/02 by Gotchya]
 

Top