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Thread: Cricketweb poster with the best understanding of the game

  1. #76
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Adelaide is an extraordinary exception to the last 3 years - I've never seen McGrath bowl that well on that type of pitch, and I've seen most of his Test-wickets in the last 3 years.
    oh yes and how poor he was on both of his last 2 tours to india......
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  2. #77
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    I didn't see either - and the first, I might add, was outside the period I've always referred to.
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  3. #78
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    I didn't see either - and the first, I might add, was outside the period I've always referred to.
    err the first was in 2001.
    so lets see now, you've watched 9 series off mcgrath in his entire career, coincidentally you missed both those series where he bowled well in non seamer friendly conditions in india, called both the ashes series as seamer friendly, called both the aus-SA series as luck and anomalies, called the recent aus-NZ series as another anomaly, and basically only looked at his 2 poor series in the last 3 years which were against the WI and NZ in 01 and is only about 1/3rd of his career and said that all his wickets on non seamer friendly wickets were lucky. well done in proving your point.

  4. #79
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    oh yes and how poor he was on both of his last 2 tours to india......
    I don't think the Adelaide wicket was like any Indian wicket. The Indian wickets, especially during the pre-season, which is what September-October is, always offer quite a bit for fast bowlers. The early morning dew always freshens up the pitches and the first hour and a half are always great if you are a fast bowler. Plus, the pitches are so rough and the outfields rather unused, that you can start reverse swinging the ball after just 20-25 overs, at times. At least, after 30 overs, you will get reverse swing, which becomes very pronounced during the last session. Off the wicket, yes, there is very little, but all this help from the traditional and the reverse swing cannot be totally thrown out of the equation.


    Having said all that, I still think McGrath is one of the best bowlers in the world while bowling on flat tracks. But it always seems as though he doesn't perform at his best if he gets hit early on. Gillespie seems the opposite to me. Everytime a batsman hits him for a four or six, he seems to come back harder. While McGrath seems better when he is on a roll, taking wickets and not conceding runs, than when he is concending a lot of runs.
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  5. #80
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    err the first was in 2001.
    so lets see now, you've watched 9 series off mcgrath in his entire career, coincidentally you missed both those series where he bowled well in non seamer friendly conditions in india, called both the ashes series as seamer friendly, called both the aus-SA series as luck and anomalies, called the recent aus-NZ series as another anomaly, and basically only looked at his 2 poor series in the last 3 years which were against the WI and NZ in 01 and is only about 1/3rd of his career and said that all his wickets on non seamer friendly wickets were lucky. well done in proving your point.
    Basically I said he hardly ever played in seaming conditions, and when he got wickets in almost every match on flat wickets I watched he got them because of poor strokes.
    Nowhere near as complicated as you thought.

  6. #81
    International Coach Barney Rubble's Avatar
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    I think Richard has the best knowledge of the game, but (no offense Richard) I think sometimes you tend to forget that all sport is about fun, and the fact that you said it wouldn't have been funny at all if Strauss had taken the last wicket on Sunday sealed it for me - I just think you need to lighten up a bit, that's all.

    I think if you were a bit more willing to let other people have their own points of view, and "agree to disagree" as it were, then it'd be you instead of SJS that everyone's nominating on this thread.

  7. #82
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Personally I wouldn't dream of saying my knowledge of the game is greater than SJS's - I've not had an enormous amount of convo with him, but he's still left me in little doubt he's watched a hell of a lot of cricket with great attention-to-detail.
    In many cases agreeing to disagree is the only option (I've tried to do it with tooextracool as much as poss recently) but I do like to do my best to put my point across before agreeing to disagree.
    Then, of course, if someone contradicts me, I try to point-out why I think not.

  8. #83
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barney Rubble
    I think sometimes you tend to forget that all sport is about fun, and the fact that you said it wouldn't have been funny at all if Strauss had taken the last wicket on Sunday sealed it for me - I just think you need to lighten up a bit, that's all.
    But why?
    Why does this stuff have to be funny?
    Why can't it be someone getting an ODI-average of 3 that would almost certainly stay that way and could under no circumstances be described as deserved?
    And why can't I dislike that idea?

  9. #84
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    I don't think the Adelaide wicket was like any Indian wicket. The Indian wickets, especially during the pre-season, which is what September-October is, always offer quite a bit for fast bowlers. The early morning dew always freshens up the pitches and the first hour and a half are always great if you are a fast bowler..
    oh believe me the amount of movement that you get in the morning is minimal, certainly not enough to suggest that its anywhere close to being threatening to a quality batsman. unless of course the conditions are used to full effect by a very good bowler, which is what glenn mcgrath is. needless to say that the 01 series took place in feb-march.

    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    Plus, the pitches are so rough and the outfields rather unused, that you can start reverse swinging the ball after just 20-25 overs, at times. At least, after 30 overs, you will get reverse swing, which becomes very pronounced during the last session. Off the wicket, yes, there is very little, but all this help from the traditional and the reverse swing cannot be totally thrown out of the equation...
    wickets like the first test in chennai, offered absolutely nothing for the pace bowlers, and slow turn for spinners. reverse swing as useful as it is, will not help you get an average of under 20 on its own. it requires considerable skill and accuracy.

  10. #85
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Basically I said he hardly ever played in seaming conditions, and when he got wickets in almost every match on flat wickets I watched he got them because of poor strokes.
    Nowhere near as complicated as you thought.
    so all his wickets in both aus-sa series were of poor strokes? and the one against eng in aus in 03? and you conviently missed both the series in india, and therefore the series against NZ recently must be just an anomaly?

  11. #86
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    To summarise, life's supposed to be fun and taking everything so damn seriously isn't.

    In my book, the best way of dealing with things is humour in some way.

    Example, last week, coaching football in a deprived area of Exeter. I'm wearing a coat with a hat and gloves in the front pocket which sticks out a fair distance.

    Child: Are you pregnant?

    My response could have been anything from silence, put down, b*ll*cking, etc.

    Me: Yep, twin boys.

    End of issue.
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  12. #87
    International Coach Barney Rubble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    But why?
    Why does this stuff have to be funny?
    Why can't it be someone getting an ODI-average of 3 that would almost certainly stay that way and could under no circumstances be described as deserved?
    And why can't I dislike that idea?
    You're free to find it not funny by all means - I'm not condemning it, and I can understand where you're coming from, that if a player achieves underserved success then it shouldn't result in him being praised. All I meant is that certain sporting events have a novelty about them which means they are treasured more than the everyday - if Strauss had taken a wicket in probably his only international over ever, it would certainly have been a novelty. Maybe funny wasn't the right word.

    Also, personally, I don't like to get into debates where what is "deserved" is in question - where that's concerned, there can never be anything other than a variety of vastly different opinions which mean nothing in relation to one another, as everyone has an opinion of what constitutes "deserving" success - hard work? Talent? Being a nice bloke? There's so many variables that it's a bit of a futile argument.

  13. #88
    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barney Rubble
    You're free to find it not funny by all means - I'm not condemning it, and I can understand where you're coming from, that if a player achieves underserved success then it shouldn't result in him being praised. All I meant is that certain sporting events have a novelty about them which means they are treasured more than the everyday - if Strauss had taken a wicket in probably his only international over ever, it would certainly have been a novelty. Maybe funny wasn't the right word.

    Also, personally, I don't like to get into debates where what is "deserved" is in question - where that's concerned, there can never be anything other than a variety of vastly different opinions which mean nothing in relation to one another, as everyone has an opinion of what constitutes "deserving" success - hard work? Talent? Being a nice bloke? There's so many variables that it's a bit of a futile argument.
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  14. #89
    State Vice-Captain The Argonaut's Avatar
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    I tend not to read all of the topics on this part of the forum so have missed SJS's obvious knowledge of the game. I like reading TopCat the most. Even though I disagree with a lot of Richard's posts, I still think he has a very good knowledge of the game. Maybe a little too analytical but it provokes some spirited debate.

    Other than that everyone's pretty good. I am often amazed at the thought behind some of the posts because of the young age of the poster. Mature comments mostly.

    I don't tend to post much on this part unless I am adding something new to the debate.

  15. #90
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Pickup
    To summarise, life's supposed to be fun and taking everything so damn seriously isn't.

    In my book, the best way of dealing with things is humour in some way.

    Example, last week, coaching football in a deprived area of Exeter. I'm wearing a coat with a hat and gloves in the front pocket which sticks out a fair distance.

    Child: Are you pregnant?

    My response could have been anything from silence, put down, b*ll*cking, etc.

    Me: Yep, twin boys.

    End of issue.
    What the hell do you mean 'end of issue' ?

    I want to take up issue. Why not triplets

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