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Can anybody finds this astonishing.....

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
If India dropped Sachin Tendular, not only would the opposition rejoice and be popping champagne bottles, but there would be riots. Not just in India, I'd storm John Howard's residence here in Australia for the hell of it chanting "Bring back Sachin!".

How easily we forget the World Cup. If we're talking test cricket here, then a point can be made, but you cannot brush aside his absolute domination of the World Cup. Yes that was a while ago, but what did Sachin do in the VB Series? Someone remind me please. He scored in the first match vs Australia at Melbourne, and scored in their win against Australia (despite being injured) at Brisbane. He also scored something like 140+ against Pakistan in their best of 5 ODI sereis.

Sachin is the opposite to Sehwag right now, as Sehwag is dominating test cricket, but out of form in the limited overs game while Sachin is the reverse. Sachin may not be at his best in test cricket, but there is no way in hell someone can claim he's not performing in ODIs, because he has for the past 2 years (and much before that too, but the past 2 years are in question).
 
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Swervy

International Captain
biased indian said:
its been only two bad test match aganist australia and u say that u ahve seen india being dismissed cheaply i ahvent seen that thing happening consistantly :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
this team are meant to have the greatest batsmen of the last decade in the team and other so called greats like Laxman,Sehwag etc...with talent like that (if the hype is beleived) India should be consistantly scoring 450 plus ..but they dont...a great batting team wouldnt have been such a walkover for Australia..a great batting team wouldnt struggle to even reach 150 vs NZ (dont talk about crap wickets, great talent will overcome adversity vs an average bowling line up)..what India are good at is scoring big runs on great wickets..its normally why those games are drawn...

its up to players like Tendulkar (who has been around for 15 years in tests) to step up and take India to the next level as opposed to the mediocrity that has cursed them for years now, when really they should be flying high
 

Swervy

International Captain
Jono said:
If India dropped Sachin Tendular, not only would the opposition rejoice and be popping champagne bottles, but there would be riots. Not just in India, I'd storm John Howard's residence here in Australia for the hell of it chanting "Bring back Sachin!".

How easily we forget the World Cup. If we're talking test cricket here, then a point can be made, but you cannot brush aside his absolute domination of the World Cup. Yes that was a while ago, but what did Sachin do in the VB Series? Someone remind me please. He scored in the first match vs Australia at Melbourne, and scored in their win against Australia (despite being injured) at Brisbane. He also scored something like 140+ against Pakistan in their best of 5 ODI sereis.

Sachin is the opposite to Sehwag right now, as Sehwag is dominating test cricket, but out of form in the limited overs game while Sachin is the reverse. Sachin may not be at his best in test cricket, but there is no way in hell someone can claim he's not performing in ODIs, because he has for the past 2 years (and much before that too, but the past 2 years are in question).
is it not blatently obvious that we are talking about test cricket here..what happened in the World Cup two years ago means Bo when it comes to tests now
 

C_C

International Captain
Taylor and Waugh were captains of successful teams at the time...and I actually think both players made more consistant contributions to there teams than Sachin has in the last 2 YEARS.
How exactly have they made more consistent contributions to their teams during their lean patch than Sachin ? As statistics show, Sachin leads them in EVERY batting stat thats relevant- more runs, higher average, more 100+ scores, more 50+ scores and more consistent 50+ scores.

They were captains ? whopee ding.
So what you are implying is that being a cappo should make you 'less suspect' to being dropped than not being a cappo...... which is horseshyte...as a player should be kept/dropped based on their PLAYING PERFORMANCES.

Oh and you are forgetting one teensy weensy thing:
Unlike Taylor or Waugh during his down-phase, Tendy contributed with the ball ( okay- Waugh bowled like very very little in his latter years so he doesnt qualify). He aint an allrounder, but he is a decent part time bowler. So infact, taking batting, bowling AND fielding, Tendy's contributions are even greater than Taylor and Waugh's ( taylor was a great slipper but tendy's bowling + fielding outweigh's taylor's fielding).


In his last 25 innings Sachin has scored just over 800 runs..500 came in 3 innings...what about the other 22 innings????
FALSE.

In his last 25 innings, Tendy has scored 1008 runs at an average of 45.81

His sequence is:

176,8,51,9,32,8, 7,55,1,0,1,37,0,44,241*,60*,194*, 2,8,1,8,2,5,55 and 3

use your calculator and compute the # of innings and total runs scored.

And yea, tendy scored the bulk of his runs in his 3 innings...just like how waugh and Taylor scored the bulk of their runs in 3-4 innings as well.
If you are gonna take out the top 3 innings score per rough patch, any batsman apart from the Don would struggle to average 30+.

And yes I think if an Aussie player these days had scored 16 single figure scores in the last 25 innings as a number 4 batsman, he would be out on his ****.
Your claim is proven false by Australia's track record with their star batsmen.
As the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding.
They didnt do it before- when batting strength was comparable, so i dont see any substance to the claim that they'd do it now. Besides, you are forgetting that AUS persisted with Mark Waugh, Ian Chappell, etc. as well when they were going through a rough patch.
The only reason why a 5-6 innings of low scores from the likes of Lehmann, Katich,Clarke, etc. would result them in being axed is because they are either nowhere near the level of Tendulkar-Waugh-Taylor and/or have not played enough to establish themselves, ie, worth persisting with. If you perform over 60-70 matches and then go through a 15-20 match rough patch, you stand a LOT more chance of being persisted with than if you've played only 10-20 before your rough patch, as you have not established yourself over the years like the ones in the former category.


this team are meant to have the greatest batsmen of the last decade in the team and other so called greats like Laxman,Sehwag etc...with talent like that (if the hype is beleived) India should be consistantly scoring 450 plus ..but they dont...a great batting team wouldnt have been such a walkover for Australia..
Sehwag is just about as 'hyped' as Matty Hayden and Laxman is just about as much 'hyped' as Damien Martyn. One big reason why IND doesnt score 450+ like OZ does is because of the Gilly-n-Langer factor. IND doesnt have a decent opener for Sehwag yet and IND wicketkeepers cannot bat like Gilly.....but 5 outta 7 are evenly/superiorly matched.

great batting team wouldnt have been such a walkover for Australia..a great batting team wouldnt struggle to even reach 150 vs NZ (dont talk about crap wickets, great talent will overcome adversity vs an average bowling line up)..what India are good at is scoring big runs on great wickets..its normally why those games are drawn...
IND draws games more than winning them is because IND doesnt have the bowling strength. To win a match, you need to take 20 wickets for less runs than the opposition conceded. As such, matchwinning is more in bowler's hands than batsmen's.
And yea, a great batting team shouldnt struggle but it has known to happen before when batsmen just collectively lose form.
Aussies should look towards the Bodyline series to get a picture of what i am saying- great batting lineup went kaput there.
WI also went through this phase in the late 80s when their greats were nearing the end of their careers.

its up to players like Tendulkar (who has been around for 15 years in tests) to step up and take India to the next level as opposed to the mediocrity that has cursed them for years now, when really they should be flying high
Incorrect. IND lacks the bowling and its up to the bowlers to do that. If IND cannot take 20 wickets for less runs than the opposition conceded, they wont win matches, even if the batting scores 1000 runs per innings.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Ganguly and Agarkar have achieved far less as key players in this side- one is the captain, the other is the strike bowler, while Tendulkar is neither. Why can't the same standards be applied for them? Tendulkar is ten times the player Ganguly is or the Agarkar has been. What has Ganguly done with the bat to stay in the team that Sachin hasn't? Tendulkar is still one of the team's best fielders, while Ganguly is a liability on the fielding side. Agarkar has taken just ONE Test 5-wicket haul and ONE ODI 6-for in FOUR years, both lucky, but has been rubbish otherwise.
 

Swervy

International Captain
C_C said:
How exactly have they made more consistent contributions to their teams during their lean patch than Sachin ? As statistics show, Sachin leads them in EVERY batting stat thats relevant- more runs, higher average, more 100+ scores, more 50+ scores and more consistent 50+ scores.

They were captains ? whopee ding.
So what you are implying is that being a cappo should make you 'less suspect' to being dropped than not being a cappo...... which is horseshyte...as a player should be kept/dropped based on their PLAYING PERFORMANCES.

Oh and you are forgetting one teensy weensy thing:
Unlike Taylor or Waugh during his down-phase, Tendy contributed with the ball ( okay- Waugh bowled like very very little in his latter years so he doesnt qualify). He aint an allrounder, but he is a decent part time bowler. So infact, taking batting, bowling AND fielding, Tendy's contributions are even greater than Taylor and Waugh's ( taylor was a great slipper but tendy's bowling + fielding outweigh's taylor's fielding).




FALSE.

In his last 25 innings, Tendy has scored 1008 runs at an average of 45.81

His sequence is:

176,8,51,9,32,8, 7,55,1,0,1,37,0,44,241*,60*,194*, 2,8,1,8,2,5,55 and 3

use your calculator and compute the # of innings and total runs scored.

And yea, tendy scored the bulk of his runs in his 3 innings...just like how waugh and Taylor scored the bulk of their runs in 3-4 innings as well.
If you are gonna take out the top 3 innings score per rough patch, any batsman apart from the Don would struggle to average 30+.



Your claim is proven false by Australia's track record with their star batsmen.
As the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding.
They didnt do it before- when batting strength was comparable, so i dont see any substance to the claim that they'd do it now. Besides, you are forgetting that AUS persisted with Mark Waugh, Ian Chappell, etc. as well when they were going through a rough patch.
The only reason why a 5-6 innings of low scores from the likes of Lehmann, Katich,Clarke, etc. would result them in being axed is because they are either nowhere near the level of Tendulkar-Waugh-Taylor and/or have not played enough to establish themselves, ie, worth persisting with. If you perform over 60-70 matches and then go through a 15-20 match rough patch, you stand a LOT more chance of being persisted with than if you've played only 10-20 before your rough patch, as you have not established yourself over the years like the ones in the former category.




Sehwag is just about as 'hyped' as Matty Hayden and Laxman is just about as much 'hyped' as Damien Martyn. One big reason why IND doesnt score 450+ like OZ does is because of the Gilly-n-Langer factor. IND doesnt have a decent opener for Sehwag yet and IND wicketkeepers cannot bat like Gilly.....but 5 outta 7 are evenly/superiorly matched.



IND draws games more than winning them is because IND doesnt have the bowling strength. To win a match, you need to take 20 wickets for less runs than the opposition conceded. As such, matchwinning is more in bowler's hands than batsmen's.
And yea, a great batting team shouldnt struggle but it has known to happen before when batsmen just collectively lose form.
Aussies should look towards the Bodyline series to get a picture of what i am saying- great batting lineup went kaput there.
WI also went through this phase in the late 80s when their greats were nearing the end of their careers.



Incorrect. IND lacks the bowling and its up to the bowlers to do that. If IND cannot take 20 wickets for less runs than the opposition conceded, they wont win matches, even if the batting scores 1000 runs per innings.
ok my error, i shouldnt have relied on the initial post about the 25 innings..it should be the last 24 innings..or the last 14 test matches..still doesnt get away from the fact that he has barely contributed to the Indian cause in 12 of those 15 (although his 50 vs Australia in the last one may have tipped the game in Indias favour)

And yes, if a captain of a winning side is having a tough time on an individual batting front, well yes he is bound to be given a bit more leeway.

Re: Waugh's slump:his scores were more consistant than tendulkars have been.

to be honest, much of what you have said on that post I really cant be bothered responding to, apart from that alot of it is rubbish...the Aussies have frequently said that they feel they have to perform because they know their places are always in jeopdy with a half sustained period of underperformance...and what is the use in dragging stuff up about Ian chappell..how long ago..30/40 years ago..jeez..the game is different now
oh and to use Tendulkars bowling as some sort of justification for keeping him there is laughable
 

Swervy

International Captain
Arjun said:
Ganguly and Agarkar have achieved far less as key players in this side- one is the captain, the other is the strike bowler, while Tendulkar is neither. Why can't the same standards be applied for them? Tendulkar is ten times the player Ganguly is or the Agarkar has been. What has Ganguly done with the bat to stay in the team that Sachin hasn't? Tendulkar is still one of the team's best fielders, while Ganguly is a liability on the fielding side. Agarkar has taken just ONE Test 5-wicket haul and ONE ODI 6-for in FOUR years, both lucky, but has been rubbish otherwise.
I dont really rate ganguly as a test batsman of great note anyway..but Ganguly has produced more consistantly in the last two years for India in tests than Tendulkar has..he has score 4 50's in the last 7 innings...5 scores over 37 (!!!) in the last 8....at least in general he has furthered Indias cause with the bat in tests recently..Tendulkar has in general done nothing.
 

Swervy

International Captain
just to clarify...I havent said India should drop Tendulkar now..I think though if he continues struggling (and struggling goes beyond scoring a few runs,its whether his play contributes to the team) there must be a time fairly soon that the selectors must start seriously looking at his place in the team...if he scores even 2 hundreds (not including vs B'desh) in the next 10 tests, but all his other innings are worthless, i would still question his worth to the Indian team..he needs to start scoring consistantly and when the runs are needed
 

biased indian

International Coach
Swervy said:
ok my error, i shouldnt have relied on the initial post about the 25 innings..it should be the last 24 innings..or the last 14 test matches..still doesnt get away from the fact that he has barely contributed to the Indian cause in 12 of those 15 (although his 50 vs Australia in the last one may have tipped the game in Indias favour)

And yes, if a captain of a winning side is having a tough time on an individual batting front, well yes he is bound to be given a bit more leeway.

Re: Waugh's slump:his scores were more consistant than tendulkars have been.

to be honest, much of what you have said on that post I really cant be bothered responding to, apart from that alot of it is rubbish...the Aussies have frequently said that they feel they have to perform because they know their places are always in jeopdy with a half sustained period of underperformance...and what is the use in dragging stuff up about Ian chappell..how long ago..30/40 years ago..jeez..the game is different now
oh and to use Tendulkars bowling as some sort of justification for keeping him there is laughable
all the way u are using only australia to compare aganist india.the same thing should be
applicable for every other country .if u compare any other team with india u will find simillar problems.don't just compare india with current australia because they are in good form and luck.as given before they had the same problems some time before and they had persisted with the same players
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Swervy said:
I dont really rate ganguly as a test batsman of great note anyway..but Ganguly has produced more consistantly in the last two years for India in tests than Tendulkar has..he has score 4 50's in the last 7 innings...5 scores over 37 (!!!) in the last 8....at least in general he has furthered Indias cause with the bat in tests recently..Tendulkar has in general done nothing.
More consistently, no doubt, but he has been throwing his wicket away after getting starts. Even his best innings has been just 144, and he has made two scores of over 50, while Sachin made an unbeaten double century and stayed unbeaten close to another, and even got a 50 on a bad pitch. He may not be consistent, but on his day, he is very, very effective, like an all-time legend, but the same cannot be said of Ganguly, who has been scratchy. Ganguly's contribution "to the cause with the bat" has been just an image, compared to what Tendulkar did. He can't even run well between wickets.
 

biased indian

International Coach
Swervy said:
just to clarify...I havent said India should drop Tendulkar now..I think though if he continues struggling (and struggling goes beyond scoring a few runs,its whether his play contributes to the team) there must be a time fairly soon that the selectors must start seriously looking at his place in the team...if he scores even 2 hundreds (not including vs B'desh) in the next 10 tests, but all his other innings are worthless, i would still question his worth to the Indian team..he needs to start scoring consistantly and when the runs are needed
thats how almost every one in the world play cricket may be except for Don other wise every one will be avg 90+ per inngs if they played well in all the matches!!!

the ideal thing for any one would be to score 2 centuries and 4 fifties in 10 mathces
 

Swervy

International Captain
biased indian said:
all the way u are using only australia to compare aganist india.the same thing should be
applicable for every other country .if u compare any other team with india u will find simillar problems.don't just compare india with current australia because they are in good form and luck.as given before they had the same problems some time before and they had persisted with the same players

why bring any other team into it when this thread was started about Tendulkar..the point though is India have supposedly more talent batting wise than anyother team and so should have more options available to them and yet Indian supporters on this forum (not all may I add) appear completely opposed o even thinking that in the future if Sachin continues the way he has done, he should be dropped for the benefit both long term and short term to the team..and indeed to Tendulkar himself
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Swervy said:
i would still question his worth to the Indian team
Then pick an Indian top-6. In 19 selections out of 20, Sachin would stay. That other selection would be yours.
 

Swervy

International Captain
biased indian said:
thats how almost every one in the world play cricket may be except for Don other wise every one will be avg 90+ per inngs if they played well in all the matches!!!

the ideal thing for any one would be to score 2 centuries and 4 fifties in 10 mathces
i am not saying play well in every match..thats almost impossible, but to contribute majorly in 2 of 14 tests is not acceptable from any major batsman in the world..and if that extends to say 4 in 24 matches, he has to be dropped
 

Swervy

International Captain
Arjun said:
Then pick an Indian top-6. In 19 selections out of 20, Sachin would stay. That other selection would be yours.
read what I say...I am saying if he continues like he has done he should be considered for losing his place
 

Swervy

International Captain
biased indian said:
then y did u bring Australia into this thread :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
They are the world best team..all teams should be looking to them about how to develop a top team
 

biased indian

International Coach
Swervy said:
i am not saying play well in every match..thats almost impossible, but to contribute majorly in 2 of 14 tests is not acceptable from any major batsman in the world..and if that extends to say 4 in 24 matches, he has to be dropped
there are two intresting things that u have to look here

of his last 10 matches 6 where aganist the best bowling attack in the world so can we give him some consideration there

and he had a long injury break in between
 

biased indian

International Coach
Swervy said:
They are the world best team..all teams should be looking to them about how to develop a top team
oh now i see thts y england have been removing thier non performing players too fast like the one named vaughan(in ODI) .
 

biased indian

International Coach
Swervy said:
read what I say...I am saying if he continues like he has done he should be considered for losing his place
then why r u continueing with this arguments now.we will check wether he is continueing with his form slump and we will look in to it at that time
 

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