**Official** England in Namibia and Zimbabwe

[Richard]

no it is not, looking good on your way to 10 doesnt help you retain your place in the side. 1 good inning usually does.

Oh, of course it can - but looking like a good player, even if you've only scored a 30 and two 10s, can do an extraordinary amount... especially when backed-up by consistent success at the next level down.

 

[tooextracool]

I was equally confident that all the players who were picked (mainly for ODIs) despite poor domestic records were not good enough, too.

and maybe they were, when did i say they werent? of course given that i dont get to see much of english domestic cricket i wouldnt be able to judge whether or not certain players appeared to be good enough for international cricket. this is besides the point though....

When did I mention the attack Morris faced?

when i said that morris couldnt put away a mediocre attack you brought in the point that chopra got to play mediocre attacks too. seems like you were making a comparison here.

 

[tooextracool]

Oh, of course it can - but looking like a good player, even if you've only scored a 30 and two 10s, can do an extraordinary amount... especially when backed-up by consistent success at the next level down.

a 30 and 2 10s and you get another game, continue with 2 10s and no matter how good you look, you're out IMO.

 

[Richard]

and maybe they were, when did i say they werent? of course given that i dont get to see much of english domestic cricket i wouldnt be able to judge whether or not certain players appeared to be good enough for international cricket. this is besides the point though....

I don't think so - if you don't pick on domestic form, what do you pick on? Even if it doesn't work every time (and it doesn't, I've never said it does) it still works more often than anything else.

when i said that morris couldnt put away a mediocre attack you brought in the point that chopra got to play mediocre attacks too. seems like you were making a comparison here.

I was saying that a Test-class player would be expected to score heavier than Chopra did - as would Morris against Sri Lanka. I was not, however, saying that the Sri Lanka attack was every bit as poor as the ones Chopra faced, which it sounded like you might be implying.
Of course, they could be as poor as each other, but I wouldn't like to make any comparisons not knowing a single thing about any of the Sri Lankan bowlers in the respective game(s).

 

[Richard]

a 30 and 2 10s and you get another game, continue with 2 10s and no matter how good you look, you're out IMO.

Yep, 3 chances is about as much as someone deserves in one go if they don't make a half-century - but they don't deserve to be dumped and not given another chance if their domestic record is good.

 

[tooextracool]

Yep, 3 chances is about as much as someone deserves in one go if they don't make a half-century - but they don't deserve to be dumped and not given another chance if their domestic record is good.

if they perform consistently and show improvements since the last time that they were selected then yes. if bowlers like anderson continue to somehow get wickets at the domestic level without any improvement in pace or accuracy i would be reluctant to ever pick him in the test side.

 

[Richard]

Anderson seems to keep getting picked because there isn't anyone enormously better.
Thing is, we don't know whether or not he's made an improvement in pace and accuracy unless we pick him in Test-matches.

 

[indie2]

Guys. I guess I'm new here and don't understand the rules of the forum, but what has any of this got to do with England in Namibia dn Zimbabwe.

Would it be considered rude to ask you to take it somewhere else?

 

[tooextracool]

I don't think so - if you don't pick on domestic form, what do you pick on? Even if it doesn't work every time (and it doesn't, I've never said it does) it still works more often than anything else.

yes you do usually pick on domestic form, however as ive said before just because someone is a success at the domestic level, it doesnt guarantee them a place in the english side for the next 20 test matches irrespective of their performances.
and im fine with the 'hunches' that the english selectors go on. if they find someone who has great character and performs well under pressure then that player could be useful to the side. whether or not this happens very rarely, i would much rather have taken the risk of picking vaughan and harmison and watched them fail at the intl level, then not picked them and watched them fail at the domestic level.

I was saying that a Test-class player would be expected to score heavier than Chopra did - as would Morris against Sri Lanka. I was not, however, saying that the Sri Lanka attack was every bit as poor as the ones Chopra faced, which it sounded like you might be implying.
Of course, they could be as poor as each other, but I wouldn't like to make any comparisons not knowing a single thing about any of the Sri Lankan bowlers in the respective game(s).

its fairly obvious that they werent. chopra did well in those games, even if he didnt score prolifically, because he played to the plan.

 

[tooextracool]

Anderson seems to keep getting picked because there isn't anyone enormously better.
Thing is, we don't know whether or not he's made an improvement in pace and accuracy unless we pick him in Test-matches.

with all that rod marsh talks about the up and coming bowlers in english cricket, i cant believe that we dont have a better bowler than anderson in all of domestic cricket.
and i think pace and accuracy can both be judged by watching performances in domestic cricket.

 

[Richard]

yes you do usually pick on domestic form, however as ive said before just because someone is a success at the domestic level, it doesnt guarantee them a place in the english side for the next 20 test matches irrespective of their performances.

Well of course it doesn't, nor would I dream of saying it should.

and im fine with the 'hunches' that the english selectors go on. if they find someone who has great character and performs well under pressure then that player could be useful to the side. whether or not this happens very rarely, i would much rather have taken the risk of picking vaughan and harmison and watched them fail at the intl level, then not picked them and watched them fail at the domestic level.

Nonetheless these don't come-off infitesimally more than they do.

its fairly obvious that they werent. chopra did well in those games, even if he didnt score prolifically, because he played to the plan.

The plan that involved him doing little and Sehwag doing a lot.

 

[Richard]

with all that rod marsh talks about the up and coming bowlers in english cricket, i cant believe that we dont have a better bowler than anderson in all of domestic cricket.
and i think pace and accuracy can both be judged by watching performances in domestic cricket.

Oh, yes, of course they can. But you can't watch all the domestic cricket, really - you can only make guesses on the stats, which as we know can tell a misleading story.
I'd be interested to know who you'd pick ahead of Anderson.

 

[tooextracool]

Nonetheless these don't come-off infitesimally more than they do..

no they dont but the fact is that they happen sometimes, if we didnt go on those hunches we would quite possibly have missed both harmison and vaughan.

The plan that involved him doing little and Sehwag doing a lot.

the plan involved seeing of the new ball so that the middle order got to bat in better conditions. not everything in cricket has to do with runs im afraid.

 

[tooextracool]

Oh, yes, of course they can. But you can't watch all the domestic cricket, really - you can only make guesses on the stats, which as we know can tell a misleading story.
I'd be interested to know who you'd pick ahead of Anderson.

if i watched enough domestic cricket, i would be able to tell you precisely who id pick ahead of him. with regard to test matches, i can quite comfortably say that id pick jones ahead of anderson,saggers and kirtley.
and i dont see how pace and accuracy can be misleading to anyone watching in domestic cricket.

 

[Richard]

no they dont but the fact is that they happen sometimes, if we didnt go on those hunches we would quite possibly have missed both harmison and vaughan.

I'm very confident Vaughan would have emerged eventually.
And we all know what I think WR the Harmison situation, and it's best we don't go into it again.

the plan involved seeing of the new ball so that the middle order got to bat in better conditions. not everything in cricket has to do with runs im afraid.

No, it doesn't, but I repeat: seeing-off Bracken, Williams, Lee and the like isn't especially difficult.
Anyhow, even if the plan works for the team, it's almost impossible to justify keeping a batsman with an average of 28 (as he had at the time) in the side.
Eventually, a batsman has to make runs in his own right.

 

[Richard]

if i watched enough domestic cricket, i would be able to tell you precisely who id pick ahead of him. with regard to test matches, i can quite comfortably say that id pick jones ahead of anderson,saggers and kirtley.
and i dont see how pace and accuracy can be misleading to anyone watching in domestic cricket.

It can't - but the stats that supposedly relate accuracy (economy-rate) can, like any stat, be misleading.

 

[indie2]

Have they gone yet...


Is it safe to mention England in Zimbabwe again or is it going to be drowned out by showponies prancing...


Guess it's safe.

There's a rumor going around that Gavin Ewing one of the Zim rebels is going to be selected for the second ODI.

Would that suggest there's a chance Zim can get their act together again? Has anyone heard anthing about this?

 

[Richard]

I hope none of them play for Zimbabwe while Mugabe is still in power.
Don't rate Ewing as a one-day batsmen much, either.

 

[Richard]

Have they gone yet...


Is it safe to mention England in Zimbabwe again or is it going to be drowned out by showponies prancing...


Guess it's safe.

See, wasn't that difficult, was it?

 

[marc71178]

so you saw flashes of brilliance in his innings of 0,0,0,1, 0, 0?

To be fair, that run he scored was an absolutely brilliant one!