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Thread: Persisting with Failure : Good captaincy or Stupid Obstinacy ??

  1. #1
    SJS
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    Persisting with Failure : Good captaincy or Stupid Obstinacy ??

    Its difficult to find words for Parthiv's keeping let alone a word in his behalf. But do Ganguly and others who insist on playing him realise that they may have written his epitaph as a cricketer ?

    It is rare, if not unheard of for a keeper to be able to make a come back after being exposed match after match like this with a display of shoddy keeping. Someone who has been written about in almost every paper in the world that has reported on India's games and who has provoked some of the leading cricket writers to pen in special articles only devoted to his keeping is not going to find favour with the selectors again. Already, there is a different opinion being made available by the outgoing selection committee , including Chairman Kirmani, trying to become wiser after the event and decrying the current committee for continuing with Patel !

    Dropped now, he will almost certainly be lost to Indian cricket forever. He has become a laughing stock and is being derided by the spectators across the sub continent. Today 60% of all questions from the experts after the day's play were about why do we have to suffer Parthiv. Surely the poor boy deserves better !!

    Here is a keeper who showed some promise when he first came in and a helluva lot of spunk whenever he got an opportunity to bat in a tight situation. So, what happened ? He started having a bad time behind the stumps. So what does our team management (captain , coach etc) do. Talk of a bad day at office and brush the subject under the carpet.

    As bad became worse and days became weeks, the management refused to give the boy a break ! A break is not always being given a chance to play. Parthiv needed a break from the keeping duties. He needed it even more than India needed a good keeper behind the stumps but the skipper for reasons best known to him, obstinately continued with his , one-bad-match-afterall theme and the result is before us.

    Look at Zaheer's face when at the end of a gruelling day, after twenty minutes beyond the stipulated six hours of cricket, the skipper calls him for one final burst to provide the breakthrough that India desperately needed, that would have made tonight's rest a far more comforting one than a reminder of the Gillespie/Martyn partnership of the last test. And what happens ?

    The very first ball Zaheer bowls is a beautifully pitched away going delivery, Clarke edges it, a thick outside edge going at comfortable chest height between keeper and first slip, and Parthiv is laden footed, moves so late as to reach the ball with one gloves fingers while he should have been comfortably having both palms behind it with body following. Away it goes to the fence and Zaheer, desperately trying to regain his position in the Indian side is absolutely devastated.

    So what are we going to achieve ? A rejuvenated keeper who will serve the Team India for the next decade ? Forget it. We are going to have a team of bowlers raging at the misses madwe worse by the unwritten code that seems to be gaining currency..'give the poor kid a chance to come good'. I am all for giving him another chance but what is being done here is to make sure that his goose is so badly coked that his career is finished. Not by design, I know, but the effect is the same.

    Remember a guy called Deep Dasgupta ? Another failed attempt by Ganguly to foist a disaster on the Indian team as a keeper. Incidentally, Dasgupta was a superb batsman. Where is he ? How come he is never in consideration when we discuss possible keepers for India. Poor guy. He was so much devastated by the abuse (well deserved mind you) that he faced , even his bating withered away and he is almost anonymous even on the domestic circuit.

    Is this the fate that awaits Parthiv Patel. Looks like it. And who is responsible for it ? Parthiv Patel or those who refused to change him when he looked like he was out of form rather than persist with him until he became a laughing stock and a butt of new SMS jokes ?
    Last edited by SJS; 26-10-2004 at 07:10 AM.

  2. #2
    Cricketer Of The Year Mr Casson's Avatar
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    I honestly hope that Clarke goes on and hits 200, if not just to teach Patel and India a lesson about learning from your mistakes.

    If you don't take catches, if you don't pull off stumpings, you don't deserve to win.

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    I think you've answered your own question SJS.

    I'm not sure that Patel would (talking about him in the past tense already!)ever have been test class as a 'keeper.

    From reports I've read, he was apparently pretty good at home to the West Indies (2 years ago?), but I've never been convinced by him. Having said that, I don't remember him being anywhere near as bad in Australia - less than a year ago - as he is now.

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    International Debutant Waughney's Avatar
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    You have some good, valid points there.

    What annoys me is media beat up. I take this directly from Amit Varma's match report on www.cricinfo.com :
    Patel reprieved Clarke twice, first missing a straightforward stumping off Kumble, then dropping a regulation catch off Zaheer.
    It all wasn't so straight foward, especially the stumping! This sort of stuff really shapes peoples opinions and over-hypes the situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Casson
    I honestly hope that Clarke goes on and hits 200, if not just to teach Patel and India a lesson about learning from your mistakes.

    If you don't take catches, if you don't pull off stumpings, you don't deserve to win.
    Yes, the point I made when the Parthiv debate was raging after the 2nd test, was that any useful runs Patel contributes are always likely to be outweighed by the runs he costs India through missed catches/stumpings.

    I hope Clarke doesn't go on tomorrow and I'm not sure any further nails need to be hammered into the little man's coffin. It must be firmly sealed by now.

  6. #6
    Cricketer Of The Year Mr Casson's Avatar
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    Whether he needs any more 'nails' now is irrelevant. Once he's reprieved Clarke, he deserves everything he gets. If Clarke goes on the belt the sh*t out of India, they only have Patel to blame. He gets no sympathy from me.

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    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waughney
    You have some good, valid points there.

    What annoys me is media beat up. I take this directly from Amit Varma's match report on www.cricinfo.com :
    It all wasn't so straight foward, especially the stumping! This sort of stuff really shapes peoples opinions and over-hypes the situation.
    Why do you think the stumping wasnt straight forward ? Because it was down the legside ?

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    Leg side stumpings are considered difficult because mostly it means the ball comes to the keeper from the laft side of the (right handed ) batsman. This means that as the keeper is moving from his starting position just outside the line of off stump to outside the legstump, he , momentarily, loses sight of the ball behind the batsman's body. This is the ONLY reason why leg side stumpings are considered trickier than off side.

    HOWEVER, in the case of Clarke, he had moved outside the leg stump as he stepped out to play an inside out shot. Thus the ball passed on his right side, just as it would have if the ball had pitched outside the off stump. So, Parthiv had a clear, unobstructed view of the ball from the time it left the bowlers hand till it came into his and out of it !!!

    This is one of the easiest stumpings to perform (take it from me, I have kept wickets enough to know). On top of that, the batsman had started moving out of the crease even as (actually a fraction of a second before) the ball left the bowlers hand. So the keeper knew that this one if it comes through is a stumping. It heightens the awareness of the keeper in anticipation. They never take you by surprise.

    So it was an easy stumping if ever there was one.

    I think the fact that Parthiv knew 'here comes a stumping' made it tough for him in his present state of shattered confidence. That is a bigger problem with Parthiv today. There is no way he can concentrate on rectifying his technical flaws, which are many and I can enumerate them, until he gets out of this terrible state of near-nervous-breakdown that his skipper's misplaced faith has brought him to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Casson
    Whether he needs any more 'nails' now is irrelevant. Once he's reprieved Clarke, he deserves everything he gets. If Clarke goes on the belt the sh*t out of India, they only have Patel to blame. He gets no sympathy from me.
    You've missed my point. You were saying that you hope Clarke gets a double ton to teach Patel and India (i.e. the selectors, presumably) a lesson. I'm saying that the lesson must surely have been learnt regardless of whether this latest error proves particularly costly - hence the "nails/coffin" analogy. So, as a staunch Indian fan (in this series) safe in the knowledge that I'll soon have seen the back of Patel for a good while, I don't want Clarke to make any more runs.

    In other words, if Clarke is out first ball tomorrow and Patel later contributes a gritty 47 in the Indian innings, I don't think the selectors will be patting themselves on the back, sticking 2 fingers up to the media and shrieking: "See! We were right all along. All hail Parthiv - King of 'Keepers!".

    I think they've got the message.

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    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Straight forward or not, we're at international test class level. India are playing the greatest team in world cricket right now. That garbage doesn't fly anymore. Clarke should have been out twice, and India are rotting, and I mean absolutely rotting because of their stupid mistakes.

    Like it or not, India have put up one hell of a fighting effort since their huge loss in the first test. They have played well, really well. Australia have too, but that is to be expected from the #1 side. But what hurts India (and has for a long time now) is that, simply, they have a crap keeper. You can't win test matches with a keeper like Patel, let alone against the best side in the world. Its ridiculous, plain ridiculous.

    Patel did the same thing in Sydney earlier this year against Kartik's bowling. I can't remember who he missed, but it possibly cost India the game, and Kartik a wicket he badly needed at that stage of his career.

    Patel has to go, case closed. It's got nothing to do with the media, its got to do with me watching the game with my two eyes, and seeing India's chances of winning this series go down the drain, despite playing good cricket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Straight forward or not, we're at international test class level. India are playing the greatest team in world cricket right now. That garbage doesn't fly anymore. Clarke should have been out twice, and India are rotting, and I mean absolutely rotting because of their stupid mistakes.

    Like it or not, India have put up one hell of a fighting effort since their huge loss in the first test. They have played well, really well. Australia have too, but that is to be expected from the #1 side. But what hurts India (and has for a long time now) is that, simply, they have a crap keeper. You can't win test matches with a keeper like Patel, let alone against the best side in the world. Its ridiculous, plain ridiculous.

    Patel did the same thing in Sydney earlier this year against Kartik's bowling. I can't remember who he missed, but it possibly cost India the game, and Kartik a wicket he badly needed at that stage of his career.

    Patel has to go, case closed. It's got nothing to do with the media, its got to do with me watching the game with my two eyes, and seeing India's chances of winning this series go down the drain, despite playing good cricket.
    Jono, I empathise completely with your palpable sense of frustration.

    There's nothing worse than sitting through a day of test cricket, when the team you're supporting are in the field, and seeing chances - and particularly straightforward chances - missed. It makes me feel like me and the team in question have been robbed of what's rightfully mine/theirs (i.e. me: getting the chance to jump up and down like an idiot celebrating the wicket; the team: "unfairly" failing to advance their cause in the game), so god only knows how demoralising it is for the bowlers.

    As a fan of the West Indies first and foremost (and to a lesser extent India) it's something I get to experience with hair-tearing regularity.

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    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Is it just me or does anyone else think that Patel's every move is viewed through a Microscope ?? Every time he misses a bye or drops a catch, it is being considered as the main reason for losing the match.

    I dont think the problem is with Patel's Wicket Keeping, IMO the problem is with Indian bowlers who are not able to create enough chances and as fans we are so desperate that every time Patel misses a chance(no matter how difficult it is), we blame him. He is a horrible wicketkeeper, but our bowling isn't helping him either.

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    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Oh btw, I watched the clips Shwag has posted and he is worse than mediocre.

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    International Vice-Captain KennyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Casson
    I honestly hope that Clarke goes on and hits 200, if not just to teach Patel and India a lesson about learning from your mistakes.

    If you don't take catches, if you don't pull off stumpings, you don't deserve to win.
    I hope Clarke hits 200 too, coz' i like him that is!
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    Yes, he is, you just said he's horrible...

    Zaheer bowled a good spell today though, should have had at least three but for Patel, Kartik...unsure about him but he got three wickets, Kumble bowled well and had at least one stumping missed.

    With a better keeper, India might have had Australia nearly all out by now, which would not have been bad on the first day (even though about 350 runs would be a bit of a challenge against Australia's bowlers). As it is, Clarke and Gillespie have the morning to build on their score and make it well more than 400.
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