Looking Ahead...

[Spetsnatz]

How do you guys see Pakistan's chances in the test series against Australia and those of England in South Africa ?

 

[SJS]

How do you guys see Pakistan's chances in Australia and those of England in South Africa ?

Pakistan has the batsmen to tackle the Aussies. Although I wish the openers were a bit more selective in stroke making.

The pace attack is not bad at all . The only rider would be for Shoaib to be banned fropm looking at the speed gun.

I think the relatively weak area is the spin department. I dont know if Mushtaq Ahmeds best days are behind him. Its a shame that Saqlain is not getting his bag of tricks back. With these two on top of their game, Pakistan would give the Aussies a run.

I hope their fielding continues to show the improvement which is seen of late.

 

[garage flower]

Pakistan has the batsmen to tackle the Aussies. Although I wish the openers were a bit more selective in stroke making.

The pace attack is not bad at all . The only rider would be for Shoaib to be banned fropm looking at the speed gun.

I think the relatively weak area is the spin department. I dont know if Mushtaq Ahmeds best days are behind him. Its a shame that Saqlain is not getting his bag of tricks back.

I hope this comes back to haunt me, but I can see Pakistan getting a bit of a hiding.

The batting still looks over-reliant on Inzy and Youhana, though Hameed looks a fabulous talent. Not convinced by the openers and I think it's crucial that they perform and give Inzy/YY the chance to dominate rather than survive.

From what I've seen, the pace attack is potentially pretty good, but I'm not sure about the fitness of Shabbir Ahmed and Umar Gul. Without these two, Pakistan may rely too heavily on the mercurial Shoaib.

With regard to spin, what about Kaneria? Do you think he'll trouble the Aussies?

 

[twctopcat]

Will be a big test of SA's nerve, considering they're in a bit of a slum and England haven't been doing too badly in tests lately. If the pitches have a bit of bounce they might succumb to Harmison early and it would be hard seeing them make anything out of the series. But then if Kallis,Gibbs and Smith etc perform you never know. If England bowl well i see an English victory though.

 

[Spetsnatz]

Will be a big test of SA's nerve, considering they're in a bit of a slum and England haven't been doing too badly in tests lately. If the pitches have a bit of bounce they might succumb to Harmison early and it would be hard seeing them make anything out of the series. But then if Kallis,Gibbs and Smith etc perform you never know. If England bowl well i see an English victory though.

England have a huge chance IMO of beating RSA. I think the key is going to be how good the bowling support for Harmison is.

 

[garage flower]

How do you guys see Pakistan's chances in the test series against Australia and those of England in South Africa ?

Without checking, I'd guess it's a long time since anyone other than Australia won a series in South Africa (apart from South Africa, of course), but England must start as favourites.

Perhaps the biggest concern would be whether Harmison and Flintoff get enough support from the other bowlers.

EDIT: Hadn't seen your last post Spetsnatz - I wasn't copying!

 

[SJS]

I hope this comes back to haunt me, but I can see Pakistan getting a bit of a hiding.

The batting still looks over-reliant on Inzy and Youhana, though Hameed looks a fabulous talent. Not convinced by the openers and I think it's crucial that they perform and give Inzy/YY the chance to dominate rather than survive.

From what I've seen, the pace attack is potentially pretty good, but I'm not sure about the fitness of Shabbir Ahmed and Umar Gul. Without these two, Pakistan may rely too heavily on the mercurial Shoaib.

With regard to spin, what about Kaneria? Do you think he'll trouble the Aussies?

Kaneria is the best Pakistan has at present but I think they will always prefer Afridi to him since they see the difference in bowling as much less and in batting there isnt a comparison. Also the new coach seems to have great faith in Afridi.

But you are right. Kaneria has lots of potential.

I dont think he 'bites' off the wicket as Kumble does. The orthodox, roll of the wrist leg spinners have been less successful against the Aussies traditionally. It is either the orthodox big spinning off spinners or the Kumble type of high arm, kicking, legbreak/googly bowlers who trouble them more.

 

[SJS]

I hope this comes back to haunt me, but I can see Pakistan getting a bit of a hiding.

?

If this happens it wil be due to lack of a good start. Pakistan's openers are too aggressive and play the same game irrespective of bowlers, circumstances or wickets. I had once termed it as misplaced bravado. I still cant find a better term to describe the way they display their unbridled talent.

I know so does Sehwag. But Sehwag and Gilchrist are not great examples for youngsters to follow since they are a law unto themselves. PLUS their strokeplay is not unidimentional. They play almost all the strokes in the game, off both feet, with equal skill. This isnt true of many players including the more circumspect.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I think England will beat South Africa easily if there is something in the pitches. England still struggle on flat pitches without pace & bounce in them - teams will rack up 500+ and then England batsmen won't concentrate properly because it's all too easy then get out to wafts outside off-stump and contrive to lose.

Pakistan will get thrashed I think, can't have off days against Australia.

 

[KennyD]

^agree theres class in the pakistan team, but enough to beat the aussies?

nah!

 

[SJS]

^agree theres class in the pakistan team, but enough to beat the aussies?

nah!

Fair enough comment.

 

[Waughney]

Pakistan definitely needs to find some sort of consistency to seriously challenge Australia, same goes for England and South Africa. Their best chance of winning would probably be against South Africa.

 

[KennyD]

actually one thing Im worried about for the aussies is the next ashes series. WIth the Poms looking the best they have in like 15 years i worry just a little if England have their guns blazing and their pitches are suiting them, well i just wonder if it will be the closest ashes series for ages.

 

[SJS]

actually one thing Im worried about for the aussies is the next ashes series. WIth the Poms looking the best they have in like 15 years i worry just a little if England have their guns blazing and their pitches are suiting them, well i just wonder if it will be the closest ashes series for ages.

Sure it will be the closest for years. Australia are looking a lesser dominant force and England are resurgent. But whether the gap is bridged ...doubtful ..very doubtful.

 

[KennyD]

Sure it will be the closest for years. Australia are looking a lesser dominant force and England are resurgent. But whether the gap is bridged ...doubtful ..very doubtful.

well i hope not, i hope the aussies head out to england and whack them in every game!

 

[SJS]

well i hope not, i hope the aussies head out to england and whack them in every game!

Take Stuart McGill along. That will surely help

 

[twctopcat]

Sure it will be the closest for years. Australia are looking a lesser dominant force and England are resurgent. But whether the gap is bridged ...doubtful ..very doubtful.

Gap? What gap? Apart from Warne and Mcgrath not being as good as they were (though still very good), one of the main points of optimism is that there is no Steve Waugh, so the mainstay when the chips were down in the aussie side when the pressure was on. We still have Thorpe, could be a big point.

 

[SJS]

Gap? What gap? Apart from Warne and Mcgrath not being as good as they were (though still very good), one of the main points of optimism is that there is no Steve Waugh, so the mainstay when the chips were down in the aussie side when the pressure was on. We still have Thorpe, could be a big point.

Okay. Lets look at them man for man.

BATTING :

Hayden Trescothic
Langer Strauss
Ponting Thorpe
Martyn Vaughan
Lehman Key/Bell
Katich Flintoff
Gilchrist Jones

This Aussie side will outscore this England side by 50 to 75 runs per innings on average.

BOWLING

McGrath Harmison
Gillespie Flintoff
Kasprowicz Gough
Brett Lee Hoggard

I think the sides are at best even. Of course you guys can argue about that but there isnt much between them either way.
SPINNER/S

Warne Giles

No Contest. This is one of the major differences between the two sides besides the Australian batting sides maturity and consistence of performance over a long time.

I rest my case. Your turn

Remember I am a neutral Indian

PS I amy have left out someone. Please feel free to point out.

 

[garage flower]

Gap? What gap? Apart from Warne and Mcgrath not being as good as they were (though still very good), one of the main points of optimism is that there is no Steve Waugh, so the mainstay when the chips were down in the aussie side when the pressure was on. We still have Thorpe, could be a big point.

But in recent series - and there are already numerous examples in the current series - other Aussie batsmen have excelled under pressure.

I think the test of performing under pressure applies more to some of the England batsmen. Strauss, for example, has looked superb, but couldn't have asked for a much easier baptism than the one provided by mediocre Kiwi and West Indian attacks on good batting tracks.

For me, English optimism should be based on their own recent improvement and - presumably - sky high confidence rather than any perceived Aussie weaknesses, even if this Australian side is past its peak.

England have proven that they can ruthlessly dominate average sides, but haven't won a really big series (e.g. South Africa or Australia home or away, or away to SL/Ind/Pak) for a while. If Flintoff and Harmison stay fit, they could well put that right in South Africa and then we'll be set up for a great Ashes series.

 

[garage flower]

BOWLING

Kasprowicz Gough


PS I amy have left out someone. Please feel free to point out.

At the moment, it would be Anderson or Jones rather than Gough, but that doesn't dramatically affect the comparison.

Australia certainly measure up better on paper, but if Harmison and Flintoff - the premier strike bowlers - stay fit and continue to receive the effective back up provided by Giles and Hoggard this season (a big "if"?) it's difficult to envisage anything other than a tight series.