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Thread: players Who You Thought WOULDN'T Make It.............

  1. #361
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Even at Lord's in the second-innings, where they knew they were beaten and thrashed by the time the second-innings started, they delayed the inevitable for a while with 80 (26.3).
    I though that the 80 odd that they put on in the 2nd innings required quite a lot of skill and patience actually. No doubt they both probably batted better in that 2nd innings than they did for the rest of the series IMO given the conditions and the way McGrath was bowling at the time.
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  2. #362
    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    The point is, though, that someone choosing to rest from Tests rather than ODIs is more than a little worrying.
    He wanted to rest in the Kitply Cup and Asia Cup but the BCCI said no.
    The speed at which a fielding team gets through the innings is overrated.

  3. #363
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Aha.

    Can't say that surprises me then.
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  4. #364
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool View Post
    I though that the 80 odd that they put on in the 2nd innings required quite a lot of skill and patience actually. No doubt they both probably batted better in that 2nd innings than they did for the rest of the series IMO given the conditions and the way McGrath was bowling at the time.
    Oh absolutely - it was good batting. It was just never going to impact on the result of the game, because Australia had already set a target that was so far out of reach it could be compared to trying to jump from the road to touch the highest bridge on the M1.


  5. #365
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool View Post
    Still dont rate Dhoni in tests tbh. Hes done marginally better than I expected him to do as a batsman given his poor technique, but hes still a very ordinary player that has scored runs against ordinary attacks on flat pitches. I dont expect that to change either. I know that he brings alot to the team outside of his cricketing skills, but I honestly dont think that he does a much better job than KKD Karthik could do.
    The problem with that is Karthik has not kept in tests for such a long time now. And having played as a specialist bat in between... His keeping seems to have fallen down several notches.. From being a serious contender as one of the better keepers in the world, he is now putting us in a situation where so many are actually contemplating seriously that Parthiv might be the better option.


    So obvious that he has concentrated on his batting so much to the detriment of his obvious natural keeping skills. And having been a keeper whenever I have played, albeit a million levels lower, I know that it is something that you just cannot do to a decent level straightaway without having done the hard work required in practice...
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  6. #366
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manee View Post
    He wanted to rest in the Kitply Cup and Asia Cup but the BCCI said no.
    haven't read that anywhere..


    FWIW, I think it is the right move in the sense that the ODI team needs his leadership and guidance so much more than the test team needs his keeping and batting skills..

  7. #367
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    The problem with that is Karthik has not kept in tests for such a long time now. And having played as a specialist bat in between... His keeping seems to have fallen down several notches.. From being a serious contender as one of the better keepers in the world, he is now putting us in a situation where so many are actually contemplating seriously that Parthiv might be the better option.


    So obvious that he has concentrated on his batting so much to the detriment of his obvious natural keeping skills. And having been a keeper whenever I have played, albeit a million levels lower, I know that it is something that you just cannot do to a decent level straightaway without having done the hard work required in practice...
    Meh, but wicketkeeper is surely not something you can just lose? I mean you either have it or you dont because wicket keeping relies a lot upon instinct. I can understand that he is a bit rusty but surely if he were to practice consistently for a few weeks he would be able to get back to the standard that he was. I know that he was rated fairly highly as a keeper when he first came in, much better than Dhoni with the gloves at the time.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool View Post
    Meh, but wicketkeeper is surely not something you can just lose? I mean you either have it or you dont because wicket keeping relies a lot upon instinct. I can understand that he is a bit rusty but surely if he were to practice consistently for a few weeks he would be able to get back to the standard that he was. I know that he was rated fairly highly as a keeper when he first came in, much better than Dhoni with the gloves at the time.
    Nah, even a bloke as good as Ian Healy was only so because of his work ethic. Having the strength and stamina to move sideways, dive and recover for catches/wayward deliveries, 'keep to spinners, etc. and be able to do that all day is pretty much all about repetition and miles in the legs than anything instinctive.
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  9. #369
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Nah, even a bloke as good as Ian Healy was only so because of his work ethic. Having the strength and stamina to move sideways, dive and recover for catches/wayward deliveries, 'keep to spinners, etc. and be able to do that all day is pretty much all about repetition and miles in the legs than anything instinctive.
    Yeah thats true and sadly it was fairly obvious that Healy was half the keeper at the end of his career as he was at the start. Wicket keepers in general are considered to be the fittest players on the field.
    However, for someone like Karthik who has spent the majority of his career as a keeper, surely at 23 he cant be finished? I mean if he trained for a few weeks and got some practice he would be perfectly fine in a few weeks. At the end of the day, keeping to spinners and pulling off spectacular catches has less to do with work ethic than it does with reflexes, much like fielding at short leg. You either have it or you dont. Its not like batting or bowling where you have to play yourself back into form.

  10. #370
    International Debutant Salamuddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool View Post
    Meh, but wicketkeeper is surely not something you can just lose? I mean you either have it or you dont because wicket keeping relies a lot upon instinct. I can understand that he is a bit rusty but surely if he were to practice consistently for a few weeks he would be able to get back to the standard that he was. I know that he was rated fairly highly as a keeper when he first came in, much better than Dhoni with the gloves at the time.

    I don't think Dhoni can be called a poor keeper anymore. He has improved a lot with the gloves since 2005.
    He will never be a brilliant keeper but I think he is competent enough to be test match standard.


    And regrading his batting, he still averages more than pretty much any other Indian keeper that has played test cricket.
    Yes, he's no Gilchrist....but seriously, does India have a clearly superior option ? Dhoni's keeping is decent and I'm not convinced yet that Karthik is a whole lot better with the bat.
    Last edited by Salamuddin; 25-07-2008 at 11:50 PM.

  11. #371
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
    I don't think Dhoni can be called a poor keeper anymore. He has improved a lot with the gloves since 2005.
    He will never be a brilliant keeper but I think he is competent enough to be test match standard.


    And regrading his batting, he still averages more than pretty much any other Indian keeper that has played test cricket.
    Yes, he's no Gilchrist....but seriously, does India have a clearly superior option ? Dhoni's keeping is decent and I'm not convinced yet that Karthik is a whole lot better with the bat.
    I never said Dhoni is a poor keeper, I said that he was a poor keeper when he started but he clearly is a lot better now. However, I dont rate his batting in tests. His technique is poor and the only runs he has scored have come on the most lifeless test match wickets which has boosted his average. I dont expect that to change anytime soon. I dont think his batting is better than Karthik's and most people would consider Karthik to be a better keeper in test match cricket too. Im not suggesting he should be dropped, because I know he brings more to the side than just his batting and keeping but his performances in tests need to be put into context. In ODIs however, it is obvious that he is one of the best players going around.

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