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Thread: avoiding nonroundersmanship

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    School Boy/Girl Captain Shady Slim's Avatar
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    avoiding nonroundersmanship

    so yeah a part of my game i'm conscious of is trying to avoid becoming a nonrounder: i bowl some decent legspin however mainly am a batter - how is it that the balance is achieved and to not have nonroundersmanship?

    cheers

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    International Regular zorax's Avatar
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    Become good enough to get selected on one skill and just let the second skill develop on the side.

    What's wrong with non-roundersmanship tho?

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    School Boy/Girl Captain Shady Slim's Avatar
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    it's more of a personal preference of being able to capably bat and bowl and not say "i'm competent" and then just frick it all up

    see perera as an example

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    International Regular zorax's Avatar
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    Ok then pick one skill to be selected on and keep the second as a bonus.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    If you're playing at the sort of level where a few players on the team do the majority of the batting and bowling, prioritise your batting. It's generally going to be more useful for the team - you always have to bat
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    yeah awta. it's not always a trade off between one or the other though, especially at lower levels so work on both but give batting that extra bit of priority.
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  7. #7
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
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    The key to not being a nonrounder is how you introduce yourself to a new team and how you describe yourself to your current team mates.
    Never ever under pain of death say "I do a bit of both". If I was the captain I would bat you at number 8 or 9 upon hearing that and bring you on around the 45th over of the first innings (our first innings are 55 overs max).
    Also when asked where do you want to bat - don't say 5 or 6. Again I would pop you down at 8 or 9, because I actually want a specialist batsman at 5 or 6 and those people usually don't volunteer to bat 5 or 6, all real batsman want to be number 3 or 4.
    My suggestion would be to volunteer to open the batting. It is a job that everyone runs away from, and you don't have to be the best batsman in the team to do the job, in fact you can be the 6th or 7th best batsman and still get the job for a club side. Being the opening batsman will firmly establish you as anything but a no rounder.
    Also with the leg spin - if you only bowl a bit of leg spin, which is the gist I got from your post, I would either give it up altogether and just be happy bowling in the nets or work really hard at it until you are a front line spinner in club cricket. Being a good leg spinner is extremely difficult and if someone tells me they are a part time leg spinner I would probably not even give them an over. I don't mean that to sound mean, but watch Ish Sodhi bowl. He is one of the better leg spinners in the world and he is all over the place when he bowls (not taking this plunket shield into account) and always relieves the pressure. A part time leggie isn't much help - so it either work hard on it - or just describe yourself as a batsman.
    Last edited by Hurricane; 02-04-2015 at 02:07 AM.
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    Hall of Fame Member HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Disagree slightly with Hurricane. I used to love having a part time left-arm leg spinner in my team when I was captain. Great to have someone like that in the team as the unusual nature of it meant that they were great as a partnership breaker. You don't need to excel to gain that role, but bowling at net session would certainly help prove that you can fill that role. Start breaking annoying partnerships, and you'll gain more overs.
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    School Boy/Girl Captain Shady Slim's Avatar
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    by bit of leg spin i mean when i play i am called upon to actually bowl part time, not what the australian commentators have with dave warner "sending down some leggies"

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    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    The key to not being a nonrounder is how you introduce yourself to a new team and how you describe yourself to your current team mates.
    Never ever under pain of death say "I do a bit of both"
    . If I was the captain I would bat you at number 8 or 9 upon hearing that and bring you on around the 45th over of the first innings (our first innings are 55 overs max).
    Also when asked where do you want to bat - don't say 5 or 6. Again I would pop you down at 8 or 9, because I actually want a specialist batsman at 5 or 6 and those people usually don't volunteer to bat 5 or 6, all real batsman want to be number 3 or 4.
    My suggestion would be to volunteer to open the batting. It is a job that everyone runs away from, and you don't have to be the best batsman in the team to do the job, in fact you can be the 6th or 7th best batsman and still get the job for a club side. Being the opening batsman will firmly establish you as anything but a no rounder.
    Also with the leg spin - if you only bowl a bit of leg spin, which is the gist I got from your post, I would either give it up altogether and just be happy bowling in the nets or work really hard at it until you are a front line spinner in club cricket. Being a good leg spinner is extremely difficult and if someone tells me they are a part time leg spinner I would probably not even give them an over. I don't mean that to sound mean, but watch Ish Sodhi bowl. He is one of the better leg spinners in the world and he is all over the place when he bowls (not taking this plunket shield into account) and always relieves the pressure. A part time leggie isn't much help - so it either work hard on it - or just describe yourself as a batsman.
    AWTA. Sell yourself short. The team builds it's game plan from the roles of it's players. A part time bowler who claims to be an all-rounder will figure more prominently in the game plan, but will underwhelm and disappoint more often than not. Selling yourself short will avoid this, with the benefit of also providing you more game time with your stronger suit - the bat. As an all-rounder you will probably be dropped down the order, losing you game time with your stronger suit, and also result in you being unduly judged on your performances with your weaker suit. Once you establish yourself with your stronger suit, you can concentrate on your bowling.
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  11. #11
    International Regular zorax's Avatar
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    Every team I have played for -or enquired to play for- have asked new players to show up to a net session or two before letting them play in a game.

    We almost recruited a Hong Kong Women's International team bowler to play for us in a game, but declined at the end cause none of us had seen her bowl before and she wasn't free to attend a net session before the match.

    It's unfair on those who show up to practice to be left out of the side for an unknown player, and it's also a risk playing someone and letting them bat/bowl without anyone actually having seen them play before. You're just taking them on their word. What if they're rubbish?

    I have never actually witnessed anyone just rock up to a game and be in the starting XI without the captain or senior players having seen them play before.

    In that sense I think being a non-rounder, bit-of-everything kind of player is quite useful. You show up to a net session, you bat, bowl and field, you tell them you're willing to bat and field anywhere, and they'll usually find a space for you if you can do all 3 decently. Some sides are short a batsman, some are short a bowler, and some just need some better fieldsmen who can hold a bat and contribute a couple of tidy overs. A specialist could find it harder to get a spot.
    Last edited by zorax; 03-04-2015 at 11:12 PM.

  12. #12
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Every team I have played for -or enquired to play for- have asked new players to show up to a net session or two before letting them play in a game.

    We almost recruited a Hong Kong Women's International team bowler to play for us in a game, but declined at the end cause none of us had seen her bowl before and she wasn't free to attend a net session before the match.

    It's unfair on those who show up to practice to be left out of the side for an unknown player, and it's also a risk playing someone and letting them bat/bowl without anyone actually having seen them play before. You're just taking them on their word. What if they're rubbish?

    I have never actually witnessed anyone just rock up to a game and be in the starting XI without the captain or senior players having seen them play before.

    In that sense I think being a non-rounder, bit-of-everything kind of player is quite useful. You show up to a net session, you bat, bowl and field, you tell them you're willing to bat and field anywhere, and they'll usually find a space for you if you can do all 3 decently. Some sides are short a batsman, some are short a bowler, and some just need some better fieldsmen who can hold a bat and contribute a couple of tidy overs. A specialist could find it harder to get a spot.
    I DWTA with all of this and struggled to understand where you going with the first four paragraphs. I have never heard of any team agreeing to play someone without seeing them in the nets unless they were desperately short.

    Edit - i am wondering if you are responding to my post where I said I pay close attention to how you describe yourself...that is just me when i captain, or as a senior player influencing the captain about the role to give to new players, you can tell a lot about someone in the nets, but the first impression is always remembered and that is the words they used to describe themselves the day before or on the phone or whatever.

    For example if you tell me over the phone that you are a batter then I will dismiss you all together and probably bat you last or second to last in the net when everyone is tired (and I am never surprised by what I find and see from such people). If you tell me you are a batsman I will be more excited about seeing what you can do.
    Last edited by Hurricane; 04-04-2015 at 02:01 AM.

  13. #13
    International Regular zorax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    Edit - i am wondering if you are responding to my post where I said I pay close attention to how you describe yourself
    Yea that and GI Joe's saying that "The team builds it's game plan from the roles of it's players"

    Every team I've played for has held next to no weight to what the player says about themselves. We watch them play, give them a role accordingly. I described myself as a player who can do a bit of both but ended up playing as a pure bowler/fielder who batted at 10/11 because thats how I fit into the side.

    From my experience, when a new guys shows up for nets he always bats last. Everyone bowls while one or two guys bat, so new guy gets to bowl right away. We always have the first XI guys bat first in roughly batting order, followed by the reserve players. So if the new guy is rubbish at bowling and/or insists he's more of a batsman, he'll get pushed up to bat ahead of the other fringe guys, as soon as the first XI is done. If he's **** at that too, he's taken out quickly.

    But yea I suppose other sides will do things differently. But I don't think describing yourself as someone who does a bit of both is necessarily a bad thing.

  14. #14
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Yea that and GI Joe's saying that "The team builds it's game plan from the roles of it's players"

    Every team I've played for has held next to no weight to what the player says about themselves. We watch them play, give them a role accordingly. I described myself as a player who can do a bit of both but ended up playing as a pure bowler/fielder who batted at 10/11 because thats how I fit into the side.

    From my experience, when a new guys shows up for nets he always bats last. Everyone bowls while one or two guys bat, so new guy gets to bowl right away. We always have the first XI guys bat first in roughly batting order, followed by the reserve players. So if the new guy is rubbish at bowling and/or insists he's more of a batsman, he'll get pushed up to bat ahead of the other fringe guys, as soon as the first XI is done. If he's **** at that too, he's taken out quickly.

    But yea I suppose other sides will do things differently. But I don't think describing yourself as someone who does a bit of both is necessarily a bad thing.
    Normally I would just acknowledge your post with by liking it, as it is a good one, and then move back to the book I am reading, but as it is a slow night and my book is yet to hit its straps so I will respond.

    Club cricket is quite hard - and batting is actually quite difficult. Don't be fooled by Michael Clarke making batting look easy when he scores a triple century. It is very difficult to get a fifty and some of my team mates have never scored one in their lives. In my humble opinion, in club cricket you need to be a specialist batsman to be good enough to get a good score, anyone who is just handy with the bat will probably average about 9 or 10 for the season if they are lucky. We keep an honours board for our team and you go up on it if you get a 50. About 7-8 guys will go up on each year. We have never in 7 years had anyone below the number 7 spot in our batting line up make the honours board and the number 7 has only made it once.
    Now maybe this is Aotearoa conditions where the ball seams around like hell, and every week it is a green top. But team scores of 200 are considered a good effort in lower grade Wellington cricket.

    Look obviously if you say "I do a bit of both" and then turn out to be as good as Corey Anderson when we look at you in the nets then we will let you open the batting and bowling. So yes how you look in the nets is far far more important than any words you can say. So thank you for making that point because I didn't point that out to be fair.
    But if you have hopes of batting up the order or opening the bowling or even bowling first change you will get yourself off on the right foot if you manage the first phone call well.
    We once had a player called TK join our team. He said he was a bit of an all rounder and said he batted around 6 or 7 in the batting order and could bowl a bit too. I rolled my eyes and thought ok here we go again. Then I was shocked when he had his net. He actually played a proper forward defence to the first ball he faced. And I thought wow he really is a number 6 or 7 batsman. Then he played a couple of cover drives out of the middle of the bat. His bowling looked handy but nothing to write home about but he looked like a major discovery. We had a chat about him and discussed where to play him and because he had said number 6 or 7 and because we already had a set top order we slotted him in at number 6.
    He batted just ok for us for years, got an 80 once, but admitted he really wanted to bat at number 3 or 4 to me once because our top order took forever to get out and he didn't get much of a turn at number 6.
    He never got his break up the order and he doesn't play for us anymore due to work commitments. He really should have been an opening batsman looking back on it. But that's not how he positioned himself.
    I won't do an Aesops Fables on you and draw a moral from that story - but all of the above in this post makes me think how you introduce yourself is a factor even if, yes, only a small one.
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  15. #15
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
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    By the way Zorax, and this is a separate point altogether about All rounders, I could introduce myself to any new team I played for as a batting all rounder if I really wanted to since I am a better bowler than some of the specialist "bowlers" in the team. But I know it would a) make me sound like less of a batsman b) I don't want to bowl anyway because that would be selfish of me since I bat up the order and get enough of a chance to contribute in the game. I am happy just getting people out in the nets with my bowling.

    Everyone should have a "role" in the team, you are a batsman or you a bowler or in the case of one or two individuals only, you are an allrounder. As soon as you have 4or 5 guys in your team who are all rounders then you have a dysfunctional team where there are one or two guys in the team who don't get do anything other than field.

    At one point this year they were using me to bowl (and even open the bowling) but I noticed some of the tail end charlies weren't getting a turn to do anything so I put a stop to it.
    Last edited by Hurricane; 04-04-2015 at 05:08 AM.

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